What does Jainism preach? Live and let live.
What is Paryushan? 10 days in which Jains follow absolute abstinence as much as possible in order to clean their mind and body of negative thoughts. To forgive others and themselves for bad things said and done in a year.
Do we punish or look down upon Jains who do not follow Paryushan? Absolutely not. Our parents believe in the philosophy of live and let live and try not to force us for things in which we don’t believe yet or ever.
Does following Paryushan bring any change? Yes it brings out lot of perseverance in a person. 10 days in a year is all we do to celebrate Jainism we believe in.
Why exactly meat ban was asked for? May be our seniors believed that lets have less killing in those days so that few souls can live a little longer and there is positivity around. Also, Mutton and chicken are sold in the open. They hang the meat in shops and those who are fasting for a month during Paryushan are pained by this sight.
Do I support meat ban? No. The reason being, those who eat will anyways store it in advance or eat in excess to compensate those 4 days of absolute atyachaar inflicted on them by the govt. Purpose is defeated anyways. By the way, our purpose of calling meat ban is anyways not a very strong or real deal.
Is the ban really worth? Naah. We are a democratic country. We can wait for a thing for 20yrs of our life but dare you not have meat for 4 days (which are not consecutive 4 days, mind it), we will abuse your religion because we don’t care for ours either.
What the whole meat ban thing has brought forward? The hypocrisy in which we believe. My fellow Jainis who believed that our religion will be respected like others (various Government schools in Malabar stopped serving mid-day meals during Ramzaan) and may be will be at peace believing we saved a few lives of animals for few days. It also made my hyper educated friends jump out from their bed and made them express their over concern about the right of not eating what they like for 4 whole days. I am sorry for 100gms which you are going to lose.
Long live hypocrisy. Abide by the rules of minorities but not an iota of respect before giving expert opinion on our food habits which you have no idea of, except “That community that does not eat aloo pyaaz!! How are they even alive!! My whole point is, eat whatever you want, question the need of a ban but have some respect in what a particular community believes in. Period.
– Neha Jain(Via Mail)
Hey Neha…It’s not to troll you and I’m very serious about it.
Doesn’t science say Vegetables have life too? So why only animals? Doesn’t it smell like hypocrisy?
And also the topic is bit critical, if the request wud have come from Jain society to fellow citizens, matter wud have been different….like the world asking China to avoid Dog killing festival or Nepal to Buffalo killing festival. Government banning things is serious, like as a Hindu I can ask for meat ban during Shravan too. There is a difference between cooperation between religions and rights being stripped by your govermenment.
vegetables and fruits are designed by nature to be eaten by animals/human. and plant don’t feel pain. also is a tree/plant is cut it regrows, when organs are cut it doesn’t regrow.
I am against ban but , do you know what we are doing by eating meat?
its called speciesm. It is when we enslave other species , torture and murder them , since we think we are a superior species. Kind of like racism, slavery, or Nazism. in all these cases the oppressor thinks he is superior and they can own, enslave and kill because they are defenseless and have no one to speak up for them.
I normally do not participate in internet discussions but Sajunp is a moron and so are you my dear author.
A person whose name I am sure you do not know, proved well beyond doubt that plants too conduct stimuli through electrical impulses. The implication was that there is a category of plants that “feel pain”
Just like you, me and the animal you try to protect.
The most adaptable always survives and unfortunately Homo Sapiens sit on top of the food chain right now. We are Apex Predators.
Maybe Evolution will change that in the next millenium. Maybe another species will take our place and cosume fried human meat fervor. I will accept that as well.
Until that day. Can I please eat chicken without religous judgement ?
PS: From a purely biological standpoint, we pay a price for being the Apex Predator. We get the least amount of sun’s energy. Go stare at a Food Pyramid and try and understand how solar energy is transferred. Meat eaters get the least. You can feel happy that nature punishes us for eating meat by ensuring that we get the smallest cut of energy from our most precious energy reservoir.
its about finding things gross. veggies don’t squirt blood. you cant see the fear in veggies while being chopped. and please stop watching godzilla.
Nonone stopped you from eating chicken… Meat (and not chicken) was banned and wrongfully so…
But you make a very good argument for being vegie… But people smoke inspite of warning on packet similarly feel free to eat non-veg inspite of knowing that u get least energy….
chicken was banned….and chicken is meat
Firstly if you want knowledge about Jainism then go to a learned Jain Sadhu. He will explain everything properly.
You are discussing with people like us who are unaware of most of the facts. If you are talking abut someone who proved that plants have life before a few decades then please note that Jainism has been saying it for centuries. There is a lot in Jainism that we cannot prove scientifically but whatever science has proved about facts in Jainism is always true. Please find a fact in Jainism that science has proved wrong.
Regarding the ban why are you arguing about weather you can eat meat or weather one should eat meat during the paryushan. Everybody has aproblem if beacuse of Jain beliefs you do not get to eat meat for 4 days in a year. Did anybody calculate how many days of work and education we are missing because of holidays for various festivals. If you have guts please tell MNS not to force schools to close down for 5 days for Ganpati. Tell the government to close everything only for Independence days and Republic day. As a Jain if I am closing my work, our children`s education for festivals of other religions like Diwali, Holi, Id, Christmas etc, why cant others do the same for our festivals. Is it OK if others close down everything but we are criminals if only close down meat for 4 days.
if only vegetables and fruits are designed to be eaten then what should all the carnivores and omnivores eat? I think you need to broaden your perspective. Anyways, i am glad you are against the ban
A caveat – I am no expert. This is what I have heard from my
Grand Mom… Probably a Jain sadhu would be better positioned to clarify
this…
Secondly, any living organism cannot live without food. How
much food one needs depends upon how that organism has moulded himself. There
are person who eat one chapatti and there are people who eat 10 but they both
get full nourishment.
Food chain – all living organisms are different level of
food chain – Plants are at one end of the food chain. All carnivorous animals
are at the other end. All other animals including human being are in the
middle.
Also science says, most mammals have 5 sense organs
(including me and you). Plants I think have 2 sense organs. And a person interaction
with the world is through sense organs so if we kill animal, he will suffer
more (because of more sense organs) – Again I am not sure about this
Coming to Jains –
Jain Sadhus try to fast as many days as possible. They don’t
cook food. They survive on bhiksha and if they don’t get bhiksha any particular
day, they don’t eat. They even get water in bhiksha.
Fasting is way of life. Jains should keep fast/ survive on
one grain per day as many days as possible. Living normal life with fasting is
difficult but I know people who fast for many days in a year and do normal work.
(sorry to bring NAMO here but as you know he almost fasted for 9 days while on
US tour. He is also eating just once a day which he will do for 4 months)
Other people who strictly follow jain, they don’t eat green
vegetables only eat dried lentils and grains which is an way is already dead
(naturally)
Some people don’t eat green vegetables for 4 days a month
(astami and chaturdasi) and eat green vegetables other days. But they don’t eat
root vegetable and vegetables with too many seeds as that has more chance of
life.
If people are even not able to do above – there is 4 months
(monsoon season when there is more living organisms around) to follow above
things (fasting/not eating green/root vegetables) as many days as possible.
If even that is not possible then we have 7/10 days
(depending if you are swetabmbar or Digambar) of pajyusan when we should follow
the above principles. And if not, the last day is Samvatsari when we should do
some tyag.
And at the end of Samvatsari we ask for forgiveness from all
the living organisms in the world.
So – to end. Sorry, if I have hurt your feelings :)
Too much gyan? – I know
Sir let the lion eat other animals coz thats the only thing he can, don’t impose 4 day ban on his food for any belief.
I am not in fever of ban… every one has right to choose what to eat and what not. But to your point of hypocrisy….. Can we cut a human being and eat if we want….?? if not, is it hypocrisy? just bcoz an animal cant speak and complain , we cant cut and eat them up. Only solution is to educate people for any matter and then they can make conscious choice about it….
Yes its is hypocrisy. The nature’s rule is survival of the fittest and not survival of Humans only.
I am a pure veggie but no offense when you say educate them; what exactly you want to imply. Everybody studied food chain and darwin’s theory so education sometimes take u to opposite direction
When I say education it does not always means science …. educations about whats good and whats bad…. and then you can make your own choice… current education system is too modern too convey this….if you want to know in terms of science then Nitin Jain has nicely explained above….
Just answer me whether plants have life or not !? -_-
Veggies don’t squirt blood when they are chopped nor they cry in pain. it’s not like the only food source. banning meat for 4 days wont cause famine, it won’t kill people. nobody eats meat for 7 whole effing days. if they do i bet they would still have their appointments with their doctors lined up. our stomach is not evolved to digest meat (even when cooked). don’t create a ruckus out of this. being a youth you should learn to respect other religions. i don’t even care if they ban it or not, its the way how people think.
Dude visit Punjab sometimes or any country in europe if you can afford.
You just need to delve a bit into the Veganism argument and your question will be answered. To put it in short, Animals are sentient beings while plants are not.
It is we who determine what is sentient and what is not. Plants clearly have life. Are microbes like bacteria and yeasts sentient?
Supar! I would wish you visit some country like UAE, where for whole month of Ramadan, you cannot take food outside of your home.. but of course IF YOU CAN AFFORD…
Here what Jains are asking for is just a 4 days of ban… hypocrites like you are just masters in opposing everything…
Just try sometime to support other’s way of thinking too.. Not eating meat does not mean that they want to kill you, its just means that they want few more lives to live longer…
Try to see things positively sometime… everyone around you are not to always harm you!!! Hence you dont need to oppose everything without knowing the anything about it…
Dear friend. …mai maanta hu ki jainism ne ye BAN ki baat kuch dino k liye or kuch lifes ko bachane k liye ki hai……………..lekin mera ye kehna hai ki ye baat forcefully kyo kar rahe ho…………. agar aapka intention galat nhi hai to logo ko achhe tsrike se convince karne ki kodhish kare…..ho sakta hai kuch logo ko pasand aa jaye aapki baat.
Or dharam k naam pr baate nhi hongi…..bas insaniyat ki hi baat honi chahiye
Let me be president someday.. I wil BAN this KILLING only from INDIA..
BHAI LOG aapka dharam aapne acchi tarah nibha diya.. Jab JAIN ko support karne ki baari aayi toh dekh li aapki Aukaat..
just want to tell u all one thing JAIN’s SHAANT HI THEEK HAI, NEEND SE JAGAO MAT..
warna JIS DIN CHAMATKAAR DIKHAYENGE NA USS DIN NAMASKAAR KARNE LAAYAK NAI RAHOGE..
mr. its obviosly al about HUMANITY and not religion…. bcoz jains never imposed any such thing..the POLITICAL PARTIES did so…
So you’re happy that now you’ve become as good as UAE in banning things for religion right? Nice.
And bro they didn’t ask me or the country. I’ll respect Jains if they’ll ASK ME, not if they get it BANNED through govt.
We have half day school leave for Shravan Mondays. but every school kid does not keep fast on that day…
We keep day meal off in ramjan, but not every indian is muslim…
this is a way to express your respect to other religions…
May Gold bless you with SOME positive thinking of supporting others…
Bro don’t ever talk about affordability in front or for a Jain person,
…..guess which is the higest tax paying community in India, the community which gives donation generously when asked up on. Yet this is the community which accounts for 1percent on national population with the higest literacy rate without any reservations and government aid.
Worlds richest begger is also Jain…Mr.Bharat Jain..
dude…lemme tell you no othr religion must hv travelled soo much as Jains do..n as faar as europe is concerned…kindly have a survey of the most travelling ppl frm India to Europe..u,ll hv d facts their itself.. though cn undrstand dt u guys cannot afford n so telng us …
To paraphrase, “Our stomachs are not evolved to eat meat all 7 days”. What absolute and utter bullshit. People around the world (and I do mean everywhere outside your little world…like Punjab, the whole north east, Hyderabad, kerela, etc) eat meat everyday without getting sick. Also, since you mention that vegetables don’t squirt blood and cry in pain, then why don’t you eat root vegetables? Also, if you are not eating root vegetables because you might kill some microbial life, then why eat dahi (since it’s a natural pro biotic)? Even milk has some kind of bacteria in it (which is why it spoils if kept for a day). When you boil milk, you basically kill those bacteria to improve its shelf life.
I have nothing against Jains but please spare your high horses. This article says that we want to live and yet justifies banning of anything? This article says they This article says that Jains do not support meat ban and yet patronizes people saying that they can’t wait for 4 days? Utter hypocrisy.
Dude you’re such a racist. Milk has bacteria, yes. But mind you, your body needs bacteria and some enzymes. There are enzymes living in your body for the digestion purpose. Question about why we don’t eat ground veggies is that they have ‘visible’ living things in them and they are very large in number. And about bacteria in curd and milk, the bacteria is what helps in digestion too and that’s why people recommend curd after a meal. And the bacteria doesn’t die when milk is heated, if they do, then milk has no value, nutrients get zero. Bacteria don’t die coz they come out alive as part of excreta or unwanted waste.
lol…….biology ki uda di
Bro. Biology tumhe nahi aati. Go Google up. Bacteria don’t die on heating at all. They only stop breeding when they are in the refrigerator above a certain temperatures. And bacteria are got rid off in milk by pasteurisation, the packeted milk.. So and bacteria is needed and is already in the body for digestion purpose. Don’t be an uninformed person before you comment.
Firstly, a lot of bacteria are killed on boiling, those that do not are called extremophiles: thermophiles. Secondly, enzymes are not living things, they are just chemicals, that by themselves are not alive, so there are no enzymes LIVING in your body, there are loads of enzymes in your body. The nutrition in milk, the reason why most people drink milk comes from its calcium and protein content, it also has carbohydrates like lactose and fats not from the bacteria in the milk. Bacteria are essential for human life though, infact some estimates suggest that there are more bacterial cells in our body than our own cells. Our intestine is full of bacteria and these are essential. Research shows that these bacteria can affect our behaviour and immunity.
Aditya, please learn your science before speaking on this topic. You are really just weakening the case for vegetarians.
Yea….show me these “visible” living things in these ground veggies the next time you go to buy them. On the other hand, cauliflower (phoolgobi) and green peas (mutter/vatana) genuinely have worms/flies in them when you open them sometimes. I don’t see Jains not eating those things. Also, please go and read any 10th science book. Bacteria are inactive in the ranges of 40s or 50s (do not remember the exact range) but absolutely die when the milk is boiled. And milk has plenty of nutritional value even without those bacterias. Did you fail in 8th standard Science?
By your logic, if bacterias do not die at boiling temperature, then they should be active again when the milk cools down. So what’s the point of boiling?
Also, Jains are not a race. Go google the definition of racism before you comment! And I am not discriminating againsts Jains. You follow whatever you want, but your religion should not affect other people. Do you know how much loss butchers and meat shops suffered due to this 8 day ban? 8 days is basically 1/4 of the month. If you assume that the average butcher earns 16,000rs a month, thats roughly 4000rs loss for them….to people who have nothing to even do with Jains. Good job!
HahhahahahahahahhahahahhaHahhaha hahahahahahhahahhaha. Ghela che aa toh.
Dude….does respecting d religion means not eatng meat for 4 days….no 1 is forcng jains to eat meat….den y d fuss bout forcing odrs not to eat meat…its an individual choice….dont force ur religion and belifs on odrs….respecting dosnt mean following….no 1 has dis respected jainism…bt dsnt mean i shld not eat meat to respect jainism….this is a free country…..dnt impose ur belifs on odrs…
Now jains will decide what we should eat & what we should store and keep. Who gives you the right to impose your religion on us ?? Do we force you to eat onions and garlics ? Do we force you to do anything related to our religion ? the answer is no. You follow your religion customs ? Who is going to pay for the losses you are going to cause to the local meat vendors ? I don’t think your Paryushan will be complete by ruining others business or even by forcing people to follow your ways. Don’t get offended tomorrow by Hindus or Muslims or Sikhs or Christians force you to eat meat or do any other thing according to there festival. No one gives any one the right to decide for others. You follow your customs be happy you should not force others. Forcing and hurting others is against your own religion which you are breaking in 1st place I don’t think your paryushan can be complete by doing so!
Escuse me mrs. Jadhav.. JAINS never did forced any1.. 1st OF ALL HAVE THIS IDEA VERY CLEAR IN YOUR MIND. This is since 20 years nd that to by some POLITICAL PARTIES..n not by US… n if u are so much concerned abt those vendors thn let me tel u they r nt doing a great work by killing the animals n selling them.n certainly animal eating predator is Inhumane..Every1 hv right to life…just because they cannot speak that doesnt mean you can eat them up.. its about BEING HUMAN.. We are not going to get any materialistic benefit by doing this.. its just about undrstndg those suffering animals who cant speak like U n ME wen they are in Pain.
“just because they cannot speak that doesnt mean you can eat them up.. its about BEING HUMAN” ?
Why don’t U apply the same logic to plants as well ?
10,000 jains have organized a 1 day fast for ban on meat in Bhayander. Check the news for yourself. Is this not a case of forced ban ?
Mr. Dc Mehta use your morals in your own life no need everyone should follow you ! don’t interfere in our values . We have the freedom to choose for us. Don’t teach me what is great work and what is not. Everyone can choose for themselves this is democratic country . We are not ruled by any community to force us to follow your values.
Do u eat bread Mr. Dc Mehta dried yeast eukaryotic microorganisms
why ?? Because they cant speak.
you should understand the reason behind aaloo and pyaaz and garlic not being eaten by Jains…they are the vegetables wch are not plucked but uprooted. hence taking away the life of the whole plant…rest all vegetables are plucked and their plants/trees survive to bear more vegetables later on.
people are factually so wrong man. meat would be available in restaurants. fish and eggs in shop. they just want a riot. they wont get it.
And you think it makes sense to allow meat and fish in restaurants?
the thing is real media has died after the birth of social media…. ppl read something on fb and twitter and jump to conclusion not knowing the all the fact…..
Yes I respect their religion and choice of eating anything, but if they are calling anyone hypocrite for not following their hypocrisy, I have number of things to talk about what Jains follow and what don’t as per their actual religion.
really??when did Jains call meat eaters hypocrisy…hypocrisy is where no one protested for 40 years but as soon as BJP cam to power everybody start feeling suffocated or taking threat to their democracy and liberty, hypocrisy is when people dont research over the matter, never care to know that it was ShivSena who signed meat ban in 2014, hypocrisy is when people who are not even from the place and many who are not even non-veg are baying for Jain’s blood, and hypocrisy is in not knowing even the actual alternative dates when the meat ban is in place but yer shout out loud and pretend to be the guardian angels of liberty.
Yeah man…you might have 1 off incidents against some Jains…who doesn’t have against anybody in this world…, but tht doesn’t mean we start condemning the whole community….there are 100s of ISIS guys who butcher innocents everyday, that doesn’t man we start condemning the whole of humanity.
Hypocrisy is when you start favoring any kind of Ban on rights and start comparing it with misdeeds of previous governments. Period.
Hi Super! if you doesn’t understand something clearly doesn’t make it wrong.
I will answer you from the angle of modern science in favor of Jainism’s restriction towards plants. Yes eating plants attaract bad karma but they are immobile and only have one sense organ(JIVA TATTVA), hence their capability of feeling pain/torture is less hence lesser amount of karma. They show their experience of touch by turning towards the sun and flourishing, by withering when cut and eventually dying.
“One can say that individual plants are not aware, but they are alive and try to remain that way, which differentiates them from, say, rocks. Plants have all kinds of chemical defense systems that go in to action when the plant is damaged. Plants have ways to avoid being eaten–thorns, phytoestrogens (found in over 300 plants), poison, taste, growing high off of the ground. As Barbara McClintock, a Nobel laureate geneticist who worked with corn for over 30 years, said, “Animals can walk around, but plants have to stay still to do the same things, with ingenious mechanisms…. Plants are extraordinary. For instance…if you pinch a leaf of a plant you set off electric pulses. You can’t touch a plant without setting off an electric pulse…. There is no question that plants have [all] kinds of sensitivities. They do a lot of responding to their environment. They can do almost anything you can think of. But just because they sit there, anybody walking down the road considers them just a plastic area to look at, [as if] they’re not really alive” (Keller 199-200). If anyone should be at least open to the possibility that plants have some level of awareness, it is vegans since we continually chide others for not acknowledging animal awareness.”
http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm
But if we look deeper, it might gives us proper answer. Lets start with purpose of flower and fruit/vegetable
“The function of a flower is to produce the reproductive cells of the plant (eggs and pollen) and then produce seeds, the dormant young plant
of the next generation. ”
” Fruit function in protecting the seeds inside and in aiding seed dispersal. Protection may be afforded by hardening of the fruit to
make accessing the seeds more difficult, or by accumulation of acids or other toxins. Fleshy colored fruit attract birds and animals; seeds pass through the gut unharmed. Some types of seeds cannot
germinate unless they have first passed through the digestive tract of an animal. Many fruits promote wind dispersal. Other fruits have hooks, spines, and bristles that readily cling to fur and clothing—
just walk your dog in an old field in autumn and see! Fruits called pods dry out as they mature and rip open, flinging out the seeds.”
So obviously purpose of these flowers/ripen fruits are supposed to be consumed by others so that plant’s species can flourish.
http://www.marietta.edu/~biol/introlab/Flowers%20and%20Fruits.pdf
So as long as we are eating the ripen fallen fruits and making sure the seed is put back in nature, we are doing minimalist himsa.
Let’s look at root vegetables:
“A storage organ is a part of a plant specifically modified for storage of energy (generally in the form of carbohydrates) or water. Storage organs often grow underground, where they are better protected from attack by herbivores. Plants that have an underground storage organ are called geophytes in the Raunkiær plant life-form classification system.[1][2] Storage organs often, but not always, act as perennating organs which enable plants to survive adverse conditions (such as cold, excessive heat, lack of light or drought).”
Since there is food source inside soil and in absence of sunlight, many organism sticks towards it hence concentration of lives are much much higher near them. Other than this you obviously have to kill the plant to eat them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_organ
“In fact, the rhizosphere, the area around a plant’s roots, is considered one of the most ecologically diverse regions on the planet.
The microbiome in the rhizosphere acts as an extension of plants’ root systems, breaking down nutrients into forms that plants can use. Mycorrhizal fungi have whisper-thin fronds, called hyphae, that reach out past the root tips to access water and nutrients the plant needs to survive. They then trade those for carbohydrates the plant provides. Scientists believe that as much as 30% of the carbon that a plant produces through photosynthesis is pushed into the soil to support an entire city of microbes.
Though mycorrhizal fungi are just a multitude microbe species in the soil in and around plant roots, they live in symbiosis with about 80–90% of agricultural crops in a relationship hundreds of millions of years old. Mycorrhizal fungi cannot survive without plants, and most plants cannot thrive without mycorrhizal fungi.”
Next come to the grains: Grains are harvested after the plant dies, so we aren’t participating in violence here.
Sprouts are again living so should be avoided.
Infact in veggies, one is supposed to avoid ones which are bound to have more insects attracted towards them because of their velvety surface. for ex: brocolli, cauliflower etc. This force farmers to put pesticides, insecticides to kill those lives.
Thanks Nitin for sharing this
Well said Nitin!!
Very nicely described Nitin..!!
Very informative dude.
” but they are immobile and only have one sense organ(JIVA TATTVA), hence their capability of feeling pain/torture is less hence lesser amount of karma” well said my friend. But I really wanna ask something from you,-
1. Having just a single sense organ isn’t enough for plants to be categorized living?! If they are not living then it is the most dumb thing you may say but if its living then you are KILLING it for sure. Karma is not like a quantitative thing which you may measure by less or more but its just that you killed something for your own greed. Even plants cry on being harmed. Please read about that famous Jagdish Singh Bose experiment. http://www.medicaldaily.com/discovery-reveals-how-plants-cry-help-when-attack-imminent-242379
2. i have seen people of Jain community wearing a white mask in order to minimize killing of microbes. We cant even see those microbes in air still we care to keep them almost safe, but plants they are visible. Plants react, and we still kill them.
3 i completely agree with your point on ripened fruits which ultimately fall off and can be eaten.
4 Our eating habits just depends upon the topography. I am here in Delhi should eat vegetables, pulses, wheat etc. But what about those living next to seas. They dont have this facility of growing food in saline water and hence have to depend upon sea food. They have no other option.
What all i really wanna say is that you cannot stop it. Its nature rule that you have to be fit for the survival. As humans if we have enough sense and brain we should use it for the betterment of our people. Lets believe this fact that eating Meat chicken etc is also part of this whole cycle which is called life. Its just someone is killing an animal someone is killing a plant. Better do something for this planet, for fellow humans to reduce suffering. You cannot bring POSITIVITY around by just stopping killing of animals. it can be bring by helping someone who needs your help.
@Rahul, As regards your first point, let me tell you that yes, intensity of karma depends on many factors and one of them is classes of beings (Ekendriya, beindriya…).All the living beings on this planet fall in one of these categories. Higher the category, higher is the stage of evolution of that ‘jiva’ and killing it will attract more bad karma. Plants fall into Ekendrya (having sense of touch) while all animals including humans fall into Pachendriya category. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_terms_and_concepts
@Rahul Noone is even agruing on the fact that plants are living. Jainism has been tallking about this since eternity. What I was trying to say that despite plant is living, there are ways prescribed in Jainism to do minimalist himsa while consuming parts of plants. Jainism prescribes not to eat certain veggies based on himsa involved in it. The veggies are prescribed are also based on the consideration that we don’t have to kill plants to obtain certain veggies that is also one of the reason not to consume root vegetables, bhaji (spinach, coriander etc. during Paryushan -> whole plant need to be uprooted) etc.
If you believe in karma, then that is effect of previous karmas that people are born in certain cirsumstances that they would have to accumulate certain karmas but one can break free through them by Purusharth(current karma)
Well I think you do understand that consuming parts of plants is a way to minimalist himsa.
Why killing human is not the part of whole cycle, certain communites have eaten human meat and certain people still do. Why so much preference to human? Animals do have consciousness/intelligence which might be lower than human but that doesn’t give us the right to kill them/torture/rape/ kill their children brutally.
“Many illegal slaughterhouses operate in large cities such as Chennai and Mumbai. As of 2004, there were 3,600 legal and 30,000 illegal slaughterhouses in India.[14] Efforts to close them down have, so far, been largely unsuccessful. In 2013, Andhra Pradesh estimated that there were 3,100 illegal and 6 licensed slaughterhouses in the State.[15]”
What about all the illegal practices carried out to take animal to slaughterhouse? No rules are followed in the way they are transported, neither their age or disability consideration as per law. They are kept hungry which is against law again.
For a moment, Even if I talk about just vegeterianism then you need to understand that animal consume plants and then you are conusming animals which is increasing burden on earth.
Infact meat industry is the biggest cause of global warming. So reducing meat altogether not only can help billions of animals but will also reduce human suffering as it will tone down the global warming.
“At present, the US livestock population consumes more than 7 times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population (11). The amount of grains fed to US livestock is sufficient to feed about 840 million people who follow a plant-based diet (7).”
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full
“A widely cited 2006 report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, Livestock’s Long Shadow, estimates that 18 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions are attributable to cattle, buffalo, sheep, goats, camels, pigs, and poultry. But recent analysis by Goodland and Anhang finds that livestock and their byproducts actually account for at least 32.6 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year, or 51 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions.” Read the article it has references to studies.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
“Yet according to a 2006 report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), our diets and, specifically, the meat in them cause more greenhouse gases carbon dioxide (CO2), methane, nitrous oxide, and the like to spew into the atmosphere than either transportation or industry.”
http://theconversation.com/meat-is-a-complex-health-issue…
“Meat production is about 10 times more water-intensive than plant-based calories and proteins, with one kilogram of beef, for example, requiring 15,415 liters of water. It is also an inefficient way of generating food; up to 30 crop calories are needed to produce one meat calorie.
At any given time, the global livestock population amounts to more than 150 billion, compared to just 7.2 billion humans – meaning that livestock have a larger direct ecological footprint than we do. Livestock production causes almost 14.5 percent of global greenhouse-gas emissions and contributes significantly to water pollution.
Moreover, livestock production consumes one-third of the total water resources used in agriculture (which accounts for 71 percent of the world’s water consumption), as well as more than 40 percent of the global output of wheat, rye, oats and corn. And livestock production uses 30 percent of the earth’s land surface that once was home to wildlife, thereby playing a critical role in biodiversity loss and species extinction.”
http://www.world-grain.com/…/LexisNexisArticle.aspx…
https://woods.stanford.edu/…/consequences-increased…
Let me also aware you meat industry do atleast 2-3 overbreeding so they are increasing population of cattle first then huge amount of resources are consumed by extra cattles and they are killed after that making huge amount
http://www.scientificamerican.com/…/the-greenhouse…/
I assume you care about earth and people and world hunger and aftre reading this your perspective might change. Let me know if u need more details
Yes I do care for this world that is why I am planting trees, I help people in distress, involved in accidents, making way for aambulance I do it for fellow humans living around me, trying to preserve eco system built around me. But accept this fact that its not vegetarians who are acting less sinful that non vegetarians. Just answer my one basic question, if you are making plants cry then is it a good deal? Accept it we perform sinful acts just to make way for our life but we can surely help to cut down that by helping the ones who need our helhelp. As I said the one who is living in coastal area will need to eat sea food to meet his dietary requirements. You cannot change that bro.. Global warming has more factors then alone eating meat. The worst thing we cannot act on it. But yes we can do something. And that is where we lack. We can always stop and think of changing others but cannot do something good our self
Well I didn’t say meat industry is the only factor, all I said is it is the biggest contributor. I have cited the references from trusted sites which establishes the claim. How did you assume that vegeterians don’t do the things you do. You could be from answered from following question/asnwer.
“If you were alone on a deserted island with a pig, would you eat the pig or starve to death?
Hmm. If you were not alone, living on a planet with 7 billion people, had access to unlimited fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, and other healthy foods, and knew animals suffer and die horrible deaths so you could eat them when you don’t need to eat them to survive, would you continue to eat them? The difference between our questions is that your scenario will never happen and mine is the choice you face right now. Which do you believe is worth answering?”
https://kirschnerskorner.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/if-you-were-alone-on-a-deserted-island-with-a-pig-would-you-eat-the-pig/
I am not talking of people who are living in desert and no connection from outside world. if one can export car from other country they can certainly export veggies too.
Since root vegetables are prohibited , then i guess even they should be banned. even they are being killed to bve sold in market ?!
the problem is that taking this component out of diet will not work. We have got brains and probably use them for raising livestock in a sustainable way. This should be the approach, not elimination.
Why the hell do you write so much whenever you reply someone. No one has so much time to waste on your reply. Make it short, simple and explanatory so that everyone would be interested in reading.
hahahah rfol nonsense ppl u see :P
Well to cite from reputed sites and put the right quote, I have to do that. Well noone is forcing you to waste your time if you don’t want to understand. That is totally upto you. My job is to present the facts with references so I can’t make it short which would be more an statement and would be more like what I think not really the truth based on logic and science.
Yes Nitin,
by this logic…..Lets eat chicken legs only but leave the chicken alive. coz that will reduce the karmic effect :P
Does this even make sense to u nitin… u strike me as a person who understands ur religion or philosophy. i know that u r definately a well meaning guy…. I’m a hindu… and a spiritual person…. let me tell u that attaching urself to life…. of animals-plants or otherwise even urself is pointless. what is born will die eventually. karma is karma… humans perceive it as good or bad in their head. karma can be seen as good as well as bad. for u eating meat would be a sin, coz u feel or the slaughter of animals. but imagine if everyone became a vegan… plant life would seize to exist… there would over population on animal life… that would be a bad karma!
Neelakshi,
I am not sure how did you arrive that conclusion. You might want to read this answer of mine to get more clarification.
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefrustratedindian/a_jain_responds_to_meat_ban_in_mumbai/#comment-2247253985
Well First of all chicken don’t shed his leg on his own and neither it will regrow his leg. There is torture and pain when you take out his leg.
From the same logic of karma, you will justify human eating other human, human killing other human, human murdering/raping/torturing other human. Won’t you. Unnatural death aren’t results of karma.
You do understand that animals don’t live on air. They eat plants and other animals. If you are eating animal directly then eventually you are using more resource. Just to put things in perspective.
“At present, the US livestock population consumes more than 7 times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population (11). The amount of grains fed to US livestock is sufficient to feed about 840 million people who follow a plant-based diet (7).”
You can read this comment to get more details.
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefrustratedindian/a_jain_responds_to_meat_ban_in_mumbai/#comment-2248530320
If you more similar questions, you can visit this quora page. Here they have discussed about all the basic question you would have.
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
After all this reading if you still have some questions then you can post it here.
Thanks!
Hope you would read it with an open mind
FWIW Animals left alone in nature manage to regulate their population appropriately depending on circumstances. They do not overpopulate normally.
Being a vegan: why would plant life cease? Well balanced vegan meals are used by several Olympic athletes, film stars, etc. Not for or against any ban, just curious about your reasoning. The real value of this moment could be we all treat domesticated, wild and experiment lab animals kindly. Currently most are tortured unbelievably, for no reason except carelessness. I am sure you do not approve.
Let me be president someday.. I wil BAN this KILLING only from INDIA..
BHAI LOG aapka dharam aapne acchi tarah nibha diya..
Jab JAIN ko support karne ki baari aayi toh dekh li aapki Aukaat..
We are not into the picture yet but that doesnt mean we dont exist or we are not powerful. Its just that v believe in peaceful living But now
just want to tell u all one thing JAIN’s SHAANT HI THEEK HAI, NEEND SE JAGAO MAT..
warna JIS DIN CHAMATKAAR DIKHAYENGE NA USS DIN NAMASKAAR KARNE LAAYAK NAI RAHOGE..
This is just the beginning.
and that is the difference between me and you. Meri “AUKAT” makes me do good to everyone around me and make this place better for us. I really dont know what plan you are upto. And belive me the day someone like you will become the president, will be day that will mark more “ahimsa” in this society because you one sided decision will surely save lots of animals from being killed but may kill the feeling of being one.
u r such a forg in the well.
HAHAHAHHAHA.
I don’t kno about eating meat but U have definitely smoked something & gotten high.
Let me tell U 1 thing: If U ever do become president then people like me will never let U bully anybody.
& yess “JAIN’s SHAANT HI THEEK HAI, NEEND SE JAGAO MAT” ? Waise bhi kab jaage the ? aur kya ukhada tha bada ?
Bhaisaab i guess u r new to india :D
Please
Try to understand JAIN ARE ALSO HINDUS, THERE IS NO ANY RELIGION CALLED JAIN RELIGION
Agree with some of the points here… Let me try to answer one by one…
1. Plants are living, fruits which are on plant have seeds so that will also bring life – no denying that. But a person cannot survive without essential nutrients. So Jains have various level of tyag. Jains fast as much as possible, if they eat, then they eat pulses and grains and dried vegetables which have fallen from trees and have died naturally. That’s why root veg are prohibited in Jainism.
2. Again, all living beings are equal – animal, plants and microbe. We should harm as little as possible and only if we really need to
4. Agree with your point. Idea here is to harm as little keeping food chain in mind. You will get much more energy by eating products from plant then my eating non-veg so you will survive by harming less if you eat plant products…
To your last point, banning any thing without people buying into it will not being positivity… But believe me, if you willingly stop killing it will definitely bring positivity…
Fasting definitely brings positivity…
“microbes welfare society” good keep it up u ppl belong to the most nonsense baseless religion just learn science I bet will convert urself to some bttr religion. Morons do u realize ur going against forces creator by god this is life is made and we will go nature not with ur jain baseless shit comaprisions of living organism just fuck of from this world why u leave in this earth.
And people like you for the sake of religion are saying the most nonsense and baseless things. I think of serving humanity, and that is my religion. If you think humanity nonsense baseless religion, GO HOME YOU DRUNK BRO!
ur religion wat joke, ur nonviolence religion fucked up ppls mind making
violenace as hatred toward ur shit religion such stupid still exist I
wonder
:D
I hope you are home now :P
why meat and fish lana hai for u retard :P
ru gay veg eater sorry im straight hahah :P
A human form of life can sustain only on support from an external source.. Now the choices we make for survival varies based on the our IQ & SQ! Make ur own choices. We are just promoting what feels right to us..
Masks are usually worn to protect their holy texts from spittle.
Nitin, very nice explanation. I am Jain,58 years old and consider myself well read. But did not know scientific explanation of why ‘kandmul’ ( roots like potato,onion, carrot, ginger, garlic etc) are believed to have millions of ‘jivs’ in each of its molecule.
Thanks!
When a farmer comes to pluck a plant does it run away like an animal does when a butcher comes to slit it’s throat? Also does a plant cry & whimper like an animal? Part of the universe’s design pattern.
This is Another point that you (Nitin) can always use to questions from “super!” & like minded individuals besides from the one that you have already posted
they cry! If they cannot run then you are acting just like butchers only. you can only hear the cry of the one , you can see
ur saying like for a instance: if u killing deaf and dumb human is less pain and nonviolence then killing health human right this wat ur baseless theory is all abt wakeup and study science u jains how can u so dumbass nerds :D
Lol
Nobody has forced u to eat it man !!!! Simply why stop others from consuming what we wish to ? U do whatever u wish and let’s other do so…. I haven’t seen a lot of jains and butlers / butchers residing very close or in same areas… and really if you guys disprove on killing of animals , please stop using anything which consists of leather or fur . Please let and let live for real !!!!!! Where is the democracy? Should we also ban lunch hours during the month of Ramadan? And btw it you say no one dies if they won’t consume meat for 4 days, give a thought about the people who live hand to mouth and their income is sale of the meat which is been banned! Stop imposing your beliefs on others !
if you will read the original article, the author does not agree with the ban. She is simply asking for some respect.
Nobody has shown any disrespect to the religion.
Respect comes from within you can not ask for it! I repeat you can not ask for respect!
Respect for what… imposing beliefs on people… without their wanting it. Forcing people to not eat whatever they like… via a ban.
I think you are imposing your belief.
Well why are you forcing your belief on animals? Why are you supporting the torture/rape/kill their children brutally. Why are your forcing your views that animals are food?
Jains aren’t supposed to use leather or fur either. My whole family have never used it intentionally (we don’t sell leather items either).
Well if this would have been ban about something else I would have objected but this is ban on the sale of killing/raping/torturing animals on certain days publicy.
You need to understand that ahimsa isn’t just a belief, it’s reality one can see/observe/experience it. I wouln’t have any problem if this ban wasn’t on Paryushan either, some other day whichever people want to pick. Whole goal is to atleast reduce the suffering of animals using our religious freedom.
“When people kill innocents in the name of religious freedom noone object/protest but when someone save innocents in the name of religious freedom everyone got a problem. What an irony!”
The ban is not consecutive days either. if there are people who won’t get food if they won’t do work they should be compensated but if people owned shops they would have money to survive for one day without business.
Well when govt banned gutkha there might be many livelihood lost. When govt ban child labour, there are livelihood lost. Well govt banned human slavery, there are many livelihood lost.
The problem you don’t understand is it’s not just you are involved when you eat meat but an animal also involved in the process, which is bearing the torture of so called “your choice”. Let me enlighten without the example.
https://www.facebook.com/gary.yourofsky/videos/872839572771292/
you think this is perfectly fine because
people have fundamental right to kill them, rape them, torture them, make them slave and kill their children.
Hi Nitin,
Dont plants have life too. why not stop killing them. Arent u denying life for plants? Suppose they dont feel pain. but life is life… isnt this injustice as well.
Plants have life form in the least sensory nature(One Sense-Ek Indriya). Eating plants does not cause as much pain as much eating someone else’s flesh does. An animal not only can feel the pain/suffering, but also has emotions, a family, a intellect. And we humans being on the highest intellect are responsible to differentiate between an animal and a plant… Choices we make, make our destiny.. We do not demand in force, we only request in peace.. Its ur choice thereon..
Our perspectives may not always be same, but one thing clear is an animal is not the same as plant..
Read this.
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
Let me be president someday.. I wil BAN this KILLING only from INDIA..
BHAI LOG aapka dharam aapne acchi tarah nibha diya.. Jab JAIN ko support karne ki baari aayi toh dekh li aapki Aukaat..
just want to tell u all one thing JAIN’s SHAANT HI THEEK HAI, NEEND SE JAGAO MAT..
warna JIS DIN CHAMATKAAR DIKHAYENGE NA USS DIN NAMASKAAR KARNE LAAYAK NAI RAHOGE..
This is just the beginning..
Try the same in Europe. You guys have to carry your own food. Tsk tsk………..
Dont bully other religions. Mahavir never taught that.
hahaha u teaching us wat he taught and wat not??
Is this ur bhagwad gita teaches u??
Let it be budy… lets follow our path as our tirththankars hv taught us..let them do wteva they wish to…KARMA RISHWAAT NAI LETA… Lets follow our path by ignoring al the baseless arguments done by number of ppl…
Yes did your tirththankars teach u to have a closed mind. Not have any acceptance for others way of life. impose ur religion… ban things u dont like even if it is at the cost of others choice…. u eat plants thats killing too… best of luck on ur karma..!
Why don’t you protest the same way when human beings are killed in the name of religion. When Hindus are thrown out of Kashmir in the name of religion. You sub-consciously accept Muslims faiths and their intolerance. You can’t even have a pork shop in front of mosque. Can you do that why?
Did you just read the article at all?
lol
Btw the jain community has offered financial aid to all those who are affected with this meat ban.
Where and how to get this financial aid? Please let us know so we can get reimbursements.
Thanks Nitin..excellent write up and great reply…very informative.Don’t waste your time answering stupid and dumb questions.
The question was that should you respect religious sentiments of others. Can you stop slaughter of animals for few days as a mark of respect for others religion. But its very clear that people like you do not respect religious sentiments of others.
This is not disrespecting any religion. We respect your religion and your right to follow your religion. However what we oppose is that we are forced to follow your religion.
Respect of other religion is letting the others follow their religious actions. And nobody is asking you to do anything otherwise. But since we do not belong to your religion, we should not be compelled to follow it no matter what. Religion and law should always be separate.
It’s like i cannot eat my donut just because you are on a diet!
Hi rajesh,
forget religion….Do you respect a persons choice to eat whatever they like…. what if vegetarian food is banned… how would that make u feel. what gives u any right to determine what people should eat. imagine not getting a particular kind of food, because some community has problem with it. what if they said u dont have ‘religious sentiments’ because u wanna eat only veg.
Please don’t be judgmental……..respect religious sentiment doesn’t mean become pseudo secularist, respecting sentiments could be closing the shop in temples vicinity but can’t mean depriving myself of something which i like and would serve no purpose………Jainism doesn’t say make all people veg, prayushan is for self cleansing and not societal cleansing so better don’t use heavy words without understanding its impact…………..Also not doing good does not make me bad, doing bad makes me bad and i have every right to be neutral so neither i believe in Jainism nor i criticize it
well explained !!!
Good google extract…if u dont want to eat meat.. dont eat.. but dont force others.. do penance if you are distracted… sacrifice jain baba…
DUDE y the hell govt declare BANDH and all then..
if they wanna support a cause they will Y u declaring a bandh forcefully..
and i guess all public holidays should also be called back..wat say??
Lets do one thing…lets keep holidays according to our religions..diwali for hindus…christmas for Christians…n those kids who want to study should nt b banned frm skul evn during vacations..tht will b democracy ryt…?n the ban has been here sice years..y did u wake up nw mr indian..?
So u asking us to never wake uphtsht for our rig and fig??
Hi Viraj
We had not requested for a ban. We requested sellers not to sell it for those 4 days. It’s the government who named it as BAN for their publicity.
Who is going to pay the daily wages for the poor butcher..??
govt ban tiger hunting..i suppose u support that decision….now according to u…who is going to pay the daily wages for hunters…
No one really forced u to not eat meat u kne…u could stock up or go to restaurants n do so…it was all to save a few lives…if thts so hurtful u may as well get ur own slaughter house n no one will stop u..as said v live n let live
Hey I’m also a pure vegetarian…. Talking about lives….what you do by boiling water in this days…you kill millions of lives too in water n around the environment…. Bcoz boiled water helps you in your fasting n keep you safe wright….by killing one animal 2-3 persons have their tummy full… But for 1person fasting many lives are killed…??
This practice of washing your sins in 4 days and being corrupt the rest of the year is Bulllshit. Period.
Animal eating predators are not sinners, its just survival of the fittest, first rule of nature. Remember?
I have given you explanation on what we were discussing based on modern science.
I thought you were an intellectual who were trying to discuss things but it seems you just want to debate and mud-slinging. You can put all sort of charges and hate you wan’t to put in. Thanks for letting me know that I shoudln’t waste time on replying to your comments filled with hatred. Thanks! bye! Hope someday you will realize what I am trying to say here.
Well said Nitin and I agree with you
Hey nitin,
Say even if the plants dont feel anything. They do have life.That you cannot argue even by modern science or otherwise. Isnt it wrong to kill them as per jain philosophy. Lets stop eating altogether… that way no one gets killed naa…. :P
Indeed a good question! Should we stop eating plants as they have life too?
Let us look at how we the humans are designed by the nature. We need something to eat such as fruits,
vegetables, etc. Few people prefer to eat meat for fulfilling their nutritional diet. In general humans can eat wide spectrum of things, which can give him
required nutrition for surviving. Now it is up to the conscience of the person to choose what to eat and what not to.
Think rationally when you try to compare plants with another living being. When you cut a branch on the plant,
it can grow another branch, but when you cut a limb from other living being it can’t, except a few species such as lizard. Plants grow fruits, which are made for consumption. When the fruits ripe, they taste good and can be consumed. Some of the vegetables grow only leaves, which can be consumed by us to obtain
nutrition. Now here if you want to argue quoting that; modern science confirm that the these vegetables also possess life, then we must accept that we are
killing living vegetables for our survival and there shouldn’t be any shame in accepting
that we kill plants for our survival.
We have chosen to kill only a few plants for our survival, but other are fighting to kill even those living being
who are surviving on plants such are goat, hen, pig etc.
On this argument I will not call myself better than others, rather I’ll leave this judgement on others to think whether my food habit is better than theirs.
I am happy with my vegan diet and I am happy that my
conscience prefers vegan diet over non-vegan.
I don’t know, to what extent the Meat Ban has been imposed? Whether the authority is entering into the houses of people to check what they are eating?
Frankly speaking it is practically impossible to impose this kind of ban. The only acceptable thing to do, in my opinion, could be to restrict meat selling practices in some of the places where some of the people may have objections because of their religious beliefs and practices.
You can choose a practice or a habit for your
pleasure at place of your choice but not at the cost of comfort or discomfort of other people linked with that place.
its not possible to live without eating and thats the only reason why we eat plants..and also if understand a bit of jainism it a bigger sin to kill someone which have more senses than the other eg animals have 5 senses where as plants have only 2-3. Hence we prefer plants
Who said one can wash away sins in 4 days Mr. BS?
The purpose is to awaken our conciousness that is burried in the tyranny of materialism. It is 4/8/10 days of not accumulating bad karma in an otherwise evil life we lead. I am vegan. I am fit. I don’t expect a cow, chicken, pig, goat, lamb or fish to come and eat me. We have a mind that allows us to reason. I reasoned and chose not to eat meat. And, I am glad that I have the wisdom and self control be that way. If you look at how the dairy and poultry farms operate, and still continue to eat dairy and meat, to me you have to have a plethora of ignorance filled up in your mind. And, dude .. I don’t loose anything by the choices you make. Be at peace.
I agree with you that you are fit.. can make it out from your dp…
i guess u frgt the basic rule of survival of fittest… if it is really so thn i think u wud even be eating carnivore?? i dnt think those suffering animals r going to eat u away… Infact ur taking away the food of carnivore…n certainly animal eating predator r Inhumane..Every1 hv right to life…just because they cannot speak that doesnt mean you can eat them up.. be human in real sense buddy..
Hi Mr. Super .. you have only answered yourself in a way..government is more powerful than u and they are dictating what to do..
But on a serious note i do not believe that fittest has right to dictate nor the government nor you yourself..
N yet v have survived fr years without being those predators n compared to a lot of others who eat meat are way fitter..kudos cuz u got such an amazing point
Are you Ok if anyone comes and kills you.. Only reason is that he is fitter then you…
Bulls shit if u give survival of the fittesThe reason here….
So Nitin by that logic does this mean that if someone kills a person who is deaf, dumb and blind then that will be a lesser offence because he has 3 senses less? In my eyes that will be a bigger offence.
I think you missed conciousness/mann/mind/intelligence. It is not just based on senses but also conciousness/inteelligence to bear the pain.
Basic logic is more the senses and consciousness/mann/mind/intelligence (whatever you want to call it), more the capability to feel stress/pain/torture etc… if you want more basic details, read:
http://www.jainworld.com/education/juniors/junles08.htm
I kwow your questions are coming after hearing Zakir Naik
Did you really just say that! Zakir Naik..
So someone who is muslim and does not agree with your logic is inspired from Zakir Naik. And how about someone like me who thinks the same way as Nashfi does? You know shitheads like you make me sick to my stomach you dumb ass.
Your comment to Nashfi itself has enough himsa in it to make you go on Paryushan for the rest of your life.
Get a life dumb fuck.
Thanks for showing your hatred Anubhav. Well I said Zakir Naik because that’s what Zakir Naik exactly respond in his video and many of muslim inquirers posted a similar questions and they refer me to listen to Zakir Naik. I thought they consider him learned not stupid. I think you consider Zakir Naik stupid that’s why you have said it.
Thanks for letting me know that I shouldn’t waste any time on you. Get Well soon!
bye
Well I don’t have anything again you @nitin but want to tell you that according to the latest research, plants actually feel real time pain and horror of getting eaten. Search for it as well. Other than that I literally have no issues with your post.
@Vasu ji Those theories have been debunked. Even if that is true, followgin comments talk about the way of minimizing that too.
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefrustratedindian/a_jain_responds_to_meat_ban_in_mumbai/#comment-2247253985
More details on similar things are available here
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
http://www.quora.com/According-to-Jainism-does-eating-plants-attract-bad-karma-Is-starving-yourself-to-death-necessary-for-moksha
i dont think if any of hindu god or goddess eat meat….and this is so not opposite of showing curbing freedom…roasting meat in front of community hall is a shameful act of showing protest…
We are not interested what the logic of your religion is. No one would care what you eat. Your community can survive on air for all I care and we would continue to respect you guys un till you started enforcing your illogical (according to me which I am entitled to) preaching to others. Today you have asked for 4 days then you will extend it further because all religion (any religion ) teaches is intolerance to others views. Live and let live ..what bullshit…why dont demand meat ban in all the countries where you live or is it your community just wants to save the suffering of animals in india. So before you call other hypocrite..I think you the epitome of one. Your article is contradictory and leave aside what your religion has taught you..you havent learned what your education has taught you..so why I redicule this act of ban..is because it never stops at this..now every community will start demanding this kind of shit and soon people will on road just like mr Patel asking for reservation..this is how shit begins in India. I am so sad to see educated ppl like you and others here so blinded by their religion that they forget the greater good of the country
With the same argument why don’t try to put a pork shop in front of Mosque. Your aggressiveness only comes towards a tolerant community.
Well you guys were a tolerant community but by supporting this ban you have become one of those communities which against the secular spirit of India. I strongly condemn ppl who have gone in front of Jain halls n cooked chicken but any bullshit will be responded with another bullshit…majority of us who rediculed the ban can only vent out our frus here…coz we are not insensitive ppl like you guys….
How you measure insensitivity? Relative to yourself or to some community you are dreaming off. On Gandhi Jayanthi, government made a rule don’t sell meat on that day. Do you think government is sensitive to your feelings? In Tirumala hills, no body is allowed to sell meat and eat. Don’t you think it is insensitive? Why loud speakers from mosques, should everyone listen to non sense everyday 4 times? Why that harassment should be allowed to someone in the name of religion? Are you sensitive to other before you claim it? India is a place where you need to adjust to other feelings, though it is meaningless to you. That is how India has been surviving all these years since independence.
So the logic to wrong is to find other wrong things done in past and demand further wrongness based on past events. Dude we would love to adjust as long as it is adjustment and not enforcement. I hope you understand the difference. I might adjust but other who don’t wnat should have an option. Thats what is called tolerance. Now today your community have asked for 4 days, tomorrow other will ask if Jains were given these rights now even we want..and all the intolerant communities will start demanding. Then muslims will also as for people to not have lunch during ramzan as it happens in Middle east. There is no end to this then. This how reservations begin when Indian were asked to adjust for few who are reserved cast. We did..and now it is the shitiest thing in India were now rich communities like Patel are asking for reservations. A country were only 50% seats are merit based. Understand banning is not a solution and supporting a ban cox it benefits ur community on the name of adjustment is utter nonsense. I had huge respect for this community coz they appealed every year and enjoyed their festival. Now you want ban because your tolerance is getting over and u r seeing other communities getting undue advantages and hence you also want it. Then someone will ask for more privileges based on ur privilege and India will become even a shitier place on name of adjustment. And slowly people will have to see calendar to check what can be eaten. So please understand rationally, follow your belief but dont preach, expect adjustment but dont enforce and don’t support such enforcement. Coz you guys will get isolated soon with this behavior. So many people in India who are against this are not fools. We know once you enforce a law it just becomes a bigger shit. Gandhi Jayanti is respect for a person who sacrificed for this and not a religion based ban. FOr mosque we are adjusting and those who cant like me dont live near mosque but there is no ban..der is no law. Please I beg your community, don’t add yourself in the hate list of communities who are intolerant.
Okay don’t think of religion for sometime
But in accordance with scientific evidences all animals with long intestine shd not eat flesh …. And I don’t think 8m isn’t short this was only one reason there are many if you search
I stopped reading your comment just after your first sentence.
When you’re not interested in listening to reasons for the good, you’re not even the worth to be told anything.. Keep yelling!
You will because you are blind side by your religious belief and in that all you care is benefit of your community and not the greater good of this nation. We will continue to yell coz unfortunately even educated people in india are blinded by principles of intolerance. You guys will soon get isolated by this behavior. All the best. Promote appeasement based politics ..why dont you start demanding reservations and other minority rights..whatever shit..ban is just a start…. Its just so sad..when people were ajusting for you guys happily..you didnt have to ask or support a ban. You have caused so much unnecessary religious chaos and set a precedent for other communities to start following your footsteps. Great job
It is not disability we are talking of. Its species with fewer senses.
Plants and animals are different forms of living organisms.
Very very well said nitin…
The only idea on this banning from jains is that lesser lives get killed for some days from all on our this very auspicious and holy days and eventually everyone lands up doing atleast some lesser sins….it was just this and nothing else….but these nice initiative came out as we are imposing things…
Some times have larger scope of mind and think big and beyond with having some understanding and respect for individuals thinking for peace….
You eat don’t eat its all up to you this was just an attempt that was made…
And I also liked the comment by some one and will surely try that way next time instead of banning we will try convincing and make them understand and than let the individual decide….good one….
But again I will say banning also had same view point but somehow it came as imposing things…
Might be by nitins some very good explanation u get convinced and understand our motive and not the action taken and you on your respective will stop eating…
Thank you…no offense to any one…
B one B united….
Jai Hind
My dear friend. We respect you good thoughts. However considering that eating noveg or selling them is a sin, is not rite on your side. As most of the people who eat non veg or sacrifice animals, donot feel it as a sin. So please keep ur thaughts to ur self.
Plants have life but not a nervous system. Many philosophical schools including Jains, Buddhism and Hinduism try to inflict as minimal damage as possible on the environment. These religions or schools of thought realize that no action is possible without exploitative implications on the environment. Just 4 days of ban made such a hue and cry. Had it been any flesh hungry festival of some other ‘significant’ minority community and had the government distributed free meat for 4 days, I am sure it would have been called as the ‘strength of our democracy’. But Jains, who cares? They aren’t all that ‘significant’. Still, kudos to BJP government for going ahead with the decision.
Don’t play victim… It’s OK that there is hue an cry… At least that’s highlighting Jain values….
Great One nitin!! I really never knew what to say when I was asked by my non vegetarian friends to give up on non veg food and they would always reply, ‘you kill plants, we kill animals. Big deal’. What an insight towards the difference.. I appreciate :)
Thanks Shalini! More angles are presented on this quora thread. I think you will find it interesting.
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
Dude Have U considered the fact that not everyone believes in Karma? Or the values of Karma U have set for each living thing ?
As far as I am concerned, Every living thing regardless of senses has equal value. I do not setup value system based on my convenience.
Have U also considered that plants go on living for a number of years even centuries. So killing a plant robs a life of many many years from it. whereas, killing an animal might rob him of few years. How come that does not figure in your equation of Karma ?
& What about eggs ? It has nothing living inside it. no senses. so then there will be no karmic value attached to it.
One doesn’t necessarily have to believe in karma to understand the philosophy of ahimsa. So You consider killing a human as par with plants I believe. In other comments, I have already mentioned that there are guidelines to obtain food from plant and still do minimal himsa. You can read other comments I posted.
It is home of uncountable tiny-organism (with 2 sense and more)
It is tris-ghati abhakshya. (Tris ghati -> that kills an organism with 2 sense organs or more and abhakshya -> Not good to eat)
It promotes chicken farming and cruelty towards chicken (claws and beaks cruelly sliced off and are never given the chance to spread their wings)
But then what about the free range farming?
Argument 2——-
If it’s free range in true sense can you get infertile eggs.
There has been ongoing debate that whether or not infertile eggs are have life or not. I believe that fertility is not necessary condition of life. An infertile egg was alive; it did grew from couple of cells to big egg.
Even if it is dead after say couple of hours after being laid, i would not eat it same way i don’t eat dead meat. As the dead meat become home to uncountable one to five sense living beings so do eggs.
More details on egg industry in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=utPkDP3T7R4
You can read more on this on these quora pages
http://www.quora.com/Are-people-following-Jainism-allowed-to-eat-eggs
Cmmon Yaar this entire exercise of prayushan by 90% or more Jains is fraudulent………..people go around saying sorry without believing in it nor do they no what wrong they have done so can their apology accepted its just for self satisfaction so why do we deprive others from their choice because you want to feel good or boast your ego…………No offence but i have not seen any jam going to someone and apologizing for his deed in real, forgiveness cant be generic…………you should realize your mistake, accept it and than seek forgiveness which is not possible in 4 or 7 or 10 days, you cant fix days for it……………now the question is if Jains want to do this, who am i to give his expert opinion, true but than don’t expect me to give up something which i believe in. Also to the example of mid day meal in Ramzan, its an idiotic act by pseudo secular people and since 2 wrong don’t make right Lets not follow it………….principle remains religion is personal thing, you observe whatever you want but don’t infringe in somebody’s right to privacy, if a butcher wants to sell meat, let him sell…………go and try to convince people against it but don’t force it……………
Well yes it’s not very easy to forgive and it takes real courage to ask for forgiveness. There are lot of people who do it for namesake but some really meant it. Since it’s tough you would find fewer jains to actually meant asking for forgiveness but that aside. We aren’t talking about belief, we are talking about violence which is reality, can be observed, felt and capable of producing negativity. Killing other animals which understand the very concept of killing, freedom, attachment, family etc isn’t personal thing. It involves a living being who understand the concept of personal. You would go on to say domestic violence is personal, sexual assault is personal, child labour is personal. Infact similar arguments were used to justify human slavery. I think you need to revisit the definition of personal and belief both. I think people are forcing their will on animals. Saving a victim isn’t forcing per say.
By this logic we should force everyone to convert into 100% Veg and should impose 100% ban on non veg instead of few days…………………than don’t say it is for Jains, it’s a larger cause and requires larger debate. Also what if some people like me rejects this idea, are you going to force me into it (might lead to violence) so better convince people and not force them……………..
Also by imposing ban you are forcing your will on me so committing the same crime which you accuse me of………..
Well forcing my will to not have pleasure vs forcing your will to not have life or live a life full or torture, rape and eventually die brutally is a very different thing. I think you understand that.
It was use of religious freedom which people use to destroy environment, kill innnocent in most torturous manner. We used it to save innocents. Perhaps “when people kill innnocents in the name of religious freedom noone object/protest but when someone save innocents in the name of religious freedom everyone got a problem. What an irony!”
Crap nobody s asking you to commit genocide for religious freedom…………..iam saying every individual should have a choice…………..also you want to save life by imposing 100% ban on non veg than stop eating plant and trees as well my friend…….i have read your comments above getting into technicality and classifying plants from animal but just like you want to save animal i want to save plant so what will you eat…………….my friend i hope and wish you have understood Darwins theory…………..for Qurbani Muslims have equally sound logic why should the be asked to avoid it………….
giving religious colour to this Ban is just like
“Na tha kuch to Khuda tha, kuch na hota to khuda hota…
Duboya mujh ko hone ne, na hota main to kya hota!!!! “
I think you haven’t read all my comments. Perhaps you forget every time when you want to save plants and not animals that animals don’t live on air. They consume plants and then you consume them. In that way you plant much more plants than you would have killed if oyu have eaten them. I have already mentioned ways in comments where we don’t kill plant but take it’s fruit. I think you do understand that takign fruit is not equivalent to plant. Just to put it again:
“Meat production is about 10 times more water-intensive than plant-based calories and proteins, with one kilogram of beef, for example, requiring 15,415 liters of water. It is also an inefficient way of generating food; up to 30 crop calories are needed to produce one meat calorie.
At any given time, the global livestock population amounts to more than 150 billion, compared to just 7.2 billion humans – meaning that livestock have a larger direct ecological footprint than we do. Livestock production causes almost 14.5 percent of global greenhouse-gas emissions and contributes significantly to water pollution.
Moreover, livestock production consumes one-third of the total water resources used in agriculture (which accounts for 71 percent of the world’s water consumption), as well as more than 40 percent of the global output of wheat, rye, oats and corn. And livestock production uses 30 percent of the earth’s land surface that once was home to wildlife, thereby playing a critical role in biodiversity loss and species extinction.”
http://www.world-grain.com/news/news%20home/LexisNexisArticle.aspx?articleid=2400394785
https://woods.stanford.edu/environmental-venture-projects/consequences-increased-global-meat-consumption-global-environment
Let me also aware you meat industry do atleast 2-3 overbreeding so they are increasing population of cattle first then huge amount of resources are consumed by extra cattles and they are killed after that making huge amount of earth resource going waste.
” In the United States, more than 9 billion livestock are maintained to supply the animal protein consumed each year (11). This livestock population on average outweighs the US human population by about 5 times. Some livestock, such as poultry and hogs, consume only grains, whereas dairy cattle, beef cattle, and lambs consume both grains and forage. At present, the US livestock population consumes more than 7 times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population (11). The amount of grains fed to US livestock is sufficient to feed about 840 million people who follow a plant-based diet (7). From the US livestock population, a total of about 8 million tons (metric) of animal protein is produced annually. With an average distribution assumed, this protein is sufficient to supply about 77 g of animal protein daily per American. With the addition of about 35 g of available plant protein consumed per person, a total of 112 g of protein is available per capita in the United States per day (11). Note that the recommended daily allowance (RDA) for adults per day is 56 g of protein from a mixed diet. Therefore, based on these data, each American consumes about twice the RDA for protein. Americans on average are eating too much and are consuming about 1000 kcal in excess per day per capita (12, 13). The protein consumed per day on the lactoovovegetarian diet is 89 g per day. This is significantly lower than the 112 g for the meat-based diet but still much higher than the RDA of 56 g per day.”
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-greenhouse-hamburger/
I assume you care about earth and people and world hunger and aftre reading this your perspective might change. Let me know if u need more details
Logic of Qurbani, well I think you may want to read following to understand why this barbaric practice needs to be reconsidered
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=920607928005937&set=gm.1500244530287311&type=3
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anila-muhammad/animal-muslim-eid_b_1971072.html
http://magazine.godsdirectcontact.net/english/178/vg_53.htm
I assume as an intellectual discussion participant you will perhaps read the links and talk rationality.
Actually Nitin, please go get a life
Jainism ??? I don’t believe that this religion exists in the whole world. Your dharma guru urinates in that plastic ka thing and that thing is directly thrown In the sands which spreads diseases and that produces bad smell isn’t that bad karma Nitin Sharma. Jainism doesn’t exists at all …
Why are you spreading lies? Concept of Non-violence, karma and moksha is taken from Jainism and influenced different philosophies, I think that is more important than presence of Jainism. Because the aim of philosophy is not to spread but peace for every living being and path to eternal happiness.
I have a Jain friend who eats non veg too… It is his choice of act. On one hand Jain people wear mask so as not to kill micro organism.. So why eat anything else, everything has life from micro to macro.. In short PRACTISE WHAT YOU PREACH..
Obviously this meat eater is not a practising Jain! Cloth masks are worn to stop spittle being sprayed on holy texts. Jainism does not consider its ways the only way: it suggests ways of reducing pain for all life. Eating plants is seen as a lesser wrong than killing animals or humans. Another example: wasting food or water is seen as wrong.
Concept of karma and moksha are taken from jainism….than what about our gods our bhagwatgeeta….they are made seeing jainism….
Nitin Jain: u and ur community r only time consuming ppl, Our creator made canines teeth (which help to eat meat) and tough have reason behind. If our god want us to eat it who r u ppl doing shits by baning it, secondly so big philosophy ur presenting which is baseless as per u ppl killing plant is not violence bcoz they have less senses then animal. so let us take ur theory plant r more innocent then animal they dunt harm anyone and only if human plant they abundant so ur killing more innocent life hahahahh what type of theory u ppl leaving with really jerks morons. I think community should be banned for sure this the only solution :P
Well you believe in creator I don’t. SEcondly, human body is more similar to hervibore. You can read it here.
Our human bodies are also not designed to eat Meat Based diet. This can be learned from following links:
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
For more visual easy explanation, watch this:
https://www.facebook.com/269calf/videos/578569295571113/
For all your other basic doubts, you can read here on this link:
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
Please read my other answers on page, similar question has been posted and been answered there.
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefrustratedindian/a_jain_responds_to_meat_ban_in_mumbai/#comment-2248799077
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefrustratedindian/a_jain_responds_to_meat_ban_in_mumbai/#comment-2250812774
What did humans eat before agriculture? Weren’t we all hunter gathers? This video link is a farce. Your most discussions were science backed, but now you are just posting some links which makes no sense and show one sided views. Human is an omnivore.
if you would have gone through link properly, you wouldn’t have said so. For your convenience, posting the research article directly from the link.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-Comparative-Anatomy-of-Eating
brother this is some man out of context biased explanation, we follow logic of our creator and scientific proven meat eating canines and digestive system not for fucking for non veg right, why even ur so happy to show such nerd links. Ok u followed to be vegetarian thats fine with us wat a big deal why u asking others to impose to lead in ur way and this bans are just stupid action for human kind
I backed my statement with science article and even gave you visual explanation. Could you back up any of ur statement with proper scince paper. You need to update urself on the science. No bias here, read the paper and aware urself. Hope you will read it with open mind. Bye! Have a nice one!
brother all jain have blind folded ur self but respect ur veg diet on serious note, but stop giving gyan to other byeee I quit lol :)
I’m not against any one…I’m also a pure veggie. ..so question to jains ? 1 chicken will fill the stomach of atleast 2-3persons..you while boiling water in this 10days kill millions of life too in water n around the surrounding too ….just bcoz boiled water helps youuu i
n fasting n for good health…? Can you clear this doubt
Process of ‘jivani’ or ‘bilchhavani’ is followed to minimize the overall himsa done for the jiva present in water or water bodied jiva.
This is as per Jain philosophy:
Water from a reservoir/water source generally have tras jiva( organism with 2 or more senses and possibly only survives in water (not sure about the size of these organism)) and Jalkaya jiva (organs with one sense which only survives in water). Tras Jiva could be done away with filtering but Jalkaya jiva can only get away with boiling. Basically Jalkaya jiva get killed with boiling and doesn’t keep on producing in boiled water upto 24 hours.
According to the Jain doctrines, in boiled water beings will not be born and so will not die for a certain period according to the season. In unboiled water every moment countless creatures are born and they die. So if once the water is boiled further violence is avoided. The sin of killing creatures is committed only once if the water is heated; and this avoids the committing of that sin again and again
This is as per my knowledge from Jain scriptures so there might be some errors.
When stepwells/reservoir were used for the water source, the cloth used for filtering was reversed, and some filtered water poured over it to return the organisms to the original body of water/ its habitat. This practice is called Jivani.
In case of tap, one can keep a dedicated water source in house where they return the water beings by doing Jivani process.
Water was filtered through three layers of home-spun cotton cloth (sunlight shouldn’t pass through it). Cotton cloth, when wet behaves as a cotton pad; water passes through it by the process of surface tension, and not through gaps between fibres of the cloth as will be the case if one used cloth made of synthetic or vegetable fibre. This provides the most effective filtration of non-soluble, suspended contamination and of micro organisms, but will not remove the dissolved impurities.
Since some people might have doubt about the effectiveness of cloth filter, I will put some detail about it too based on modern science.
“Cotton cloth filter makes a mesh of roughly 10 to 20um. Also, popularity of burlap and cotton cloth over silk has reason too. As per the studies burlap is most effective, followed by cottton then silk. Polyester colth filter is non-effective. Cloth filter provides the effective filtration of non-soluble, suspended contamination and of micro organisms, but will not remove the dissolved impurities.
http://www.scientiareview.org/pdfs/90.pdf
“In laboratory experiments using electron microscopy, it was found that an inexpensive sari cloth, folded four to eight times provides a filter of about 20 µm mesh size, was small enough to remove all zooplankton, most phytoplankton, all Vibrio Choleraeattached to the plankton and other particulates larger than 20 µm (COLWELL ET AL 2003, SAFE WATER INTERNATIONAL CLEARINGHOUSE N.Y.).The risk of cholera is therefore reduced of about 50%.” Other research showed that 99% of bacteria was
eliminated from river water by filtering it through a cotton cloth folded four times.
http://poptech.org/e1_rita_colwell
http://www.sswm.info/category/implementation-tools/water-purification/hardware/point-use-water-treatment/straining-and-fi”
Do understand that chickens don’t grow up on air. They eat food, drink water and use many other resources so killing them would cause much hinger level of himsa.
You might find few of your questions answered here:
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-find-it-more-ethical-to-kill-and-eat-plants-rather-than-animals-Why-should-I-value-animals-more-than-plants-1
Bro jains are also partners of big export slaughter house in india what to say about it..?
All Jain derasars have big amount of (cash) money n they also give loan to your people within on interest base if you don’t know you can ask your dad or grand father..?
Many many Jain bhojan shaala are made but only for jains other casts are not allowed..??
Jain are majority of business man whho earns for themselves…they are not in army not a farmer not a hard working carrier…??? You no better your community help to only yours…??
Many questions are there but can’t text which we do no the secrets of jainism broo
I’m also little confused….Jain has 45lac populations n there are around more than 19000big temples of Jain…..n your God is only one….so what is the benefits of so much temples….spending corer of money on each temple…..
A love of art, a love of building beautiful structures and plenty of animal shelters too. The first conference between artists and business folk was at Vallabhi to discuss how artists, writers and scholars could be supported. Jains have over the centuries supported research, libraries and donated to all sorts of good causes. Credit where it is due…!
Their preachers often criticise incorrect practices which creep in, e.g. using huge amounts of flowers or saffron, as unnecessary. The criticism is heard, debated without violence and may be followed.
Nitin! U r doing a very noble cause.. And a very informative sharing.. I’m enlightened by ur intellectual sharing of the message. Thanks..
Thanks Prathik! Just doing my bit to stand for voiceless and sharing what I have learned from Jain philosophy and modern science.
“You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I’ll buy you a new car.”
~ Harvey Diamond
This quote is for people who are comparing animals with plants…. We are born to love. Animals feel afraid, cold, hungry and unhappy like we do. They have nervous system like us. They sense pain. As far as I know Plants have Life but don’t have attachment n feelings of Love, anger, excitement like animals , and most of the vegetarian food is not about killing whole plant, we eat mango fruit not whole mango tree.
Eating meat or not is completely a personal decision and nobody can force anyone not to eat , unless you feel it from inside. But we ignore our inner voice because it is an easier decision to make .
Human race has become very selfish even though they are most intelligent species. We are destroying nature in the name of development and killing animals because they can’t do anything about it , they can’t come to us and fight for their rights , freedom and Lives.
We got one Life. Enjoy , Travel and be Happy.
And most important thing Love People, animals and nature. These are the reasons we are alive in this Planet.
Actually the first article you have quoted above (http://www.vegetus.org/essay/…. itself deflates the subsequent rationalization you attempt when you “look deeper”. When you state “So obviously purpose of these flowers/ripen fruits are supposed to be consumed by others so that plant’s species can flourish…”, I dont think that is obvious at all. Happy to hear your response.
Ok Super, first of all this meat ban was there since 1960’s and 70’s Then came NCP extended it from two days to 4. Why are you blaming the BJP Govt about?
Its similar to Americans blaming everything on Obama. Modi promised a lot of things and hence people are looking for the slighest reasons to complaint and point fingers. They cannot be bothered to get educated and actually get facts. Things are the same on the other side as well. People are praising Modi for achievements of the previous government. Like the recent Naval base on the west coast. It was planned and commissioned by previous governments and yet Modi gets all the praise from these blinded idiots. Not bashing Modi. I think he is doing a decent job but people have to stop praising him for work which he has not done. Similarly, people have to stop critisizing him for things which he didn’t do.
How many times do you have to kill an apple tree to get apple out of it? sucker.
Hey, let me clear the doubt about Vegetable have life vs Animals have life conundrum. M last name is Jain but i follow no religion. Jainism believes in not inflicting pain on living organisms. Secondly, it has been scientifically proved that vegetables (living things like you said, or let us say plants, don’t feel any pain when they cut or plucked or eaten.
Animals on other side, they feel a lot of pain when they are twisted by neck in chickens, cut from their stomach in cows, goats etc.
So it does not smell like hypocrisy. I really don’t care to be frank. But just clearing what you thing is right, is actually incorrect information.
This too isn’t meant to be disrespectful in any way. Indian religions are highly evolved and very complex. The more you study Hinduism (which actually isn’t a single unified philosophy, but a conglomerate of various Vedic philosophies), Buddhism, and Jainism, the more you realize that these philosophies were not thrown together without thought. Religious debate has been a crucial part of Indian history, and the surviving religions have survived hard questions. So, questions such as “don’t vegetables have life?” are actually very basic questions in Jainism. They are dealt with in a very intelligent and thorough manner. It is hard to give a quick answer to a comment on a blog post, but I’ll attempt.
Jains, in fact, were one of the first to acknowledge the life in vegetables. They are known to deal with plantlife with love and care, and respect for their life form. Nevertheless, we also acknowledge that life has a varying degree of suffering based on the amount that it has evolved. Is the life of a bacteria equal to the life of an animal and a human, YES. but is the suffering equal? No.
A good explanation of what Jainism preaches using Environmentalism. In the case of Jainism, the vegetarian standards are even more strict. It allows the consumption of only fruit and leaves that can be taken from plants without causing their death. This further excludes from the diet vegetables like carrots, potatoes, onions and garlic. Although some suffering and pain is inevitably caused to other living beings to satisfy the human need for food, according to ahimsa, every effort should be made to minimize suffering. This is to avoid karmic consequences and show respect for living things. In this sense, wastage of food is considered a sin. Because all living beings are equally valued in these traditions,a vegetarian diet rooted in ahimsa is only one aspect of environmentally conscious living, relating to those beings affected by our need for food. Environmentalism and vegetarianism are often practiced together.
Taken From : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacto_vegetarianism
I do not support the ban.
First of all you are not a Hindu and hiding your identity and trying to create confusion between Hindu and Jain. For your kind information all Hindu Jain Sikh and baudh they are branches of sane tree and are not different. And our political ppl are doing all to please one minority which is dangerous for country if not immediately then in near future. Worst part is that we all are not united to fight for our right and keep supporting different parties and think they will work for me. Friends it time to wake up and act for yourself and don’t be dependent on others. And for your kind information Max tax is paid by this community and your community is just spoiling the country.
Your Mother also have a life, why not kill her also and eat. May be you can try in her old age. Vegetables have also life. Ya but do you ever have heard the cry of animal when slaughtered? Have you ever visited any slaughterhouse? Have you seen a cow crying when her calf is separated from her? Just contrast it with your mother cutting vegetables, plucking something from garden. Which one is a gory scene? If you are sensible you would understand. And Jains are trying to practice and understand that feeling of acting as humane of being compassionate, soft-heartedness. Instead of condemning for hypocrisy, at least someone is trying to begin some where.
Are you a tiger or what, if for four days you do not eat you will die. Wasting time for something so simple, leaving aside the whole other lots of big problem consuming the society.
And if you just want to justify always, you can go on arguing forever. (PS: Before replying and starting a debate understand, I answered this for others who will have little more sense and more humane nature still left)
Umm…u c veggies hav only the sense of feel…thy r inflicted by less pain whn u cut thm..n evn fr tht v feel guilty…secondly animals on the othr hand r those who c cn feel far more than veggies…if u knw so much abt science u shud knw tht…thirdly theres a difference between a month and a few days…plus the ban was nt on restaurants selling meat ..only on slaughtering of animal..so i wish ppl get their facts right…
A simple explanation. To eat 1kg chicken you need to feed it 10kg soybean. To eat 1kg soybean, you need to feed yourself 1 kg soybean :)
Hi Super! ,
My rule of thumb is :
If you can watch something grow in your backyard. Take care of it every day. And then, one fine day kill and eat it. You have earned the moral right to do it. I do it all the time with fruits, vegetables, roots and tubers. I visit farms and orchards. I see crops being harvested. But, I find nothing working with eating them.
But if you ask me to rear a dog, cow, goat, chicken or even fish in my backyard. And then one find day kill and eat it. I would prefer starvation. So, I don’t eat them, even if they have grown in someone else’s backyard(or heck cramped industrial cage). That’s just me.
But if you can do the above, or at least tour a slaughter house in action, And still savor that ham, keema or chicken tikka, you have the moral right to that food.
But, if you have seen them only on dinner table, but are too week hearted to watch the process by which it landed there, you are a hippocrate.
Hey Rohit,
First of all I’m vagitarian so that clears lot many points. Thats not by religion but by choice, still I don’t mind anyone eating meat on my dinner table. As per me the the biggest hypocrisy of mankind is that they can eat anything that has life on the planet except themselves. Secondly like every religion including hinduism, Jainism has its own hypocrisies too. I’m just against being forced by govt. to favor any religious activity over others, as good as I’m not forced to follow Ramzan (That too saves lot many plants and Animals) or Not cutting my hair for Sikhs.
I am also jain..but against such banning process by d govn..as we live in a democratic country..d imposing of decisn may b wrong..bt the motive is correct acc to us..we veggie cant see animals being prepared to get chopped..dey r social as well..dey reproduce,they cry ..n people who eat these animals might nt hv any reasn of doing so except for satisfyng their taste..we are against this inhuman action as we dare to even kill an ant or a mosquito voluntarily..no issue against any non veg eater..as we really follow live n let live..though r moto is more diverted to animals ..let dem also live.
@Super, I am vegetarian and non-religious (not atheist) by choice. I completely agree with you. To add further, my biggest issue with any religion is , they all are based on teachings of people who lived in a different time, under different circumstances. All customs, rules, practices become obsolete and irrelevant over time.. All rules should change through a scientific process. I mean come-on, in this world of big-data, I don’t go by the principles outlined in DOS books written some 30 yrs ago. Then, way are we fighting over the contents of books written thousands of years ago !!
Stop this nonsense of schools in malabar banned food during ramzan.I am a malabari and i vow to donate Rs 5000 to jain community if is proved true
Think people are referring to this news but agree, you can’t believe on anything on internet these days ;)
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/due-to-ramzan-mid-day-meals-stopped-in-malabar.53052/
An eye opener.. what more to tell..
after reading this article I support Meat Ban .. I am sorry that I forget my brothers of Jain’s community. When we talk about minority community It is generally assumed that sikh, christian and muslim are the only minors…. but there are jainism and buddhism also… and I apologize for that.
Thanks to Frustated Indian and Neha jain to bring this piece
I really hope that was sarcasm. This article is a knee jerk reaction from a Jain and is plagued with logical fallacies and hypocrysy.
Just one more point about hypocrisy.
Live and let live, right?
Your community’s belief shouldn’t be forced onto others. No need of a LAW. People who want to show respect will show on their own. Asking for a law to force others to do what you believe in and then saying live and let live is hypocrisy. Period.
I have nothing against Jains but please spare your high horses. This article says that we want to live and yet justifies banning of anything? This article says they This article says that Jains do not support meat ban and yet patronizes people saying that they can’t wait for 4 days? Utter hypocrisy. Also, the Ramzan example was to pathetic. ONE school stopped mid day meals…there was not a nation wide ban of pork for a month. Also, the site of open meat pains you? Really? Fucking grow up and deal with ya wimp. People around the world eat meat…if you can’t accept the fact then cry all you want. I am a vegetarian by the way just so you know. I have no personal stake in this but my religion should not affect the lifestyle of others. After all, your philosophy is live and let live right?
Well Said Neha!
#Meatban
I don’t support Meat ban and here is the reason…….
There is direct violence and indirect violence. For e.g. slaughtering one animal is direct violence and deforesting habitat of thousands of plants & animals is indirect violence. This indirect violence which is less visible is much more destructive & cruel and must be called super-violence (MAHA-HIMSA).
There are studies which claim that humans have wiped out half the population of wildlife on earth in just 40 years. The species are getting extinct at speeds unprecedented in Earth’s 4.5 billion year history. We are killing other species by stealing and curtailing their rights just to fulfill our ever increasing but never ending materialistic wants & aspirations. We are debating about Meat ban when whole of Mother Nature is being slowly poisoned every day by all of us, people from all the religions.
There are people who spend their time, money & energy on outdated religious rituals & ceremonies. They build large temples even if not needed; follow prescriptions given by the Maa’s and the Baapu’s; continue to pollute the oceans on pretext of some practice; etc. These are the ones who demand Meat ban as they consider violence based on the 2500 year old scriptures and teaching of their biased religious & political leaders. They follow the principle of non-violence but only in letter. They are aware of the indirect super-violence but keep their eyes closed. They don’t kill a fish directly but indirectly kill many marine lives by dumping chemicals/ plastics in ocean. They don’t kill a mosquito directly but indirectly kill a whole eco-system by building their second bungalow in a sensitive zone.
There are another people who are more practical and invest their time, money & energy on things they believe in. They work hard to keep their ecological foot print at zero and work towards strengthening natural eco-systems. They consume as much as is essential for living and they know that more unwanted consumption leads to more production which leads to more pollution, destruction & extinction of natural resources, living & non-living. They follow the principle of non-violence in letter as well as in spirit and they know that direct violence is insignificant because indirect violence through modern lifestyle & lavish consumption is killing many more species. They take essence from the scriptures and teaching of their religious & political leaders and apply to the current context so that it addresses real challenges & today’s problem.
There is no point debating just Meat ban. We must also talk about car ban, plastic bottle ban, ocean dumping ban, mining ban, land filling ban, water pollution ban…..luxury lifestyle ban and so on. In fact anything that destructs the nature directly or indirectly should be banned. That will be true AHIMSA. Someone rightly said, “Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshiping.”
It is not only Jain’s but all other religions who have an opportunity to live life which is in harmony with the principles of non-violence by giving up/ reducing indirect super-violence (MAHA-HIMSA) that they are doing. This will save the earth and all of us from upcoming extinction.
Michami Dukkadam
@author will you respect the sentiments of my made up religion and support a ban on the sale of all vegetables for one month? It is our holy month as decreed by our Lord FSM.
To all my friends
-explaining food habit of a particular community or religion.
giving big write up on pros & cons of Vegie or nonVe..
giving full theory of plants life and they way they experience. etc etc
Please try to understand – nobody should force us to do anything (even eating or non eating) let our country man decide what to do. I think all of us are mature enough to decide what is wrong or write.
Every individual has a right to eat what they wish…imposing one’s principle on others is not fair; irrespective of the religion. Respect is earned by accepting other’s beliefs.
Forced to follow ban is a bit unfair in a democratic country. I am sure a lot of non- Jains, non vegetarians would have stepped ahead in support of not eating or killing animals during the said days if it was conveyed properly. No body likes to be forced, not even animals.
Jains don’t care who follows their beliefs and who doesn’t. Its only those two idiotic MLA’s from Mira-Bhayander who played a religious card and got the whole community to pay for it. People can eat and live the way they want to. Veg, NonVeg is personal choice. I’m a vegetarian by choice but I don’t go around preaching vegetarian lifestyle to everyone. People like those 2 Jain MLA’s need to get a life.
Some dude in his replies has sadi “our stomach is not evolved to digest meat (even when cooked)”. Bro, do you understand evolution et all? Humans, by nature are carnivores, look it up. Plants have life and it has been proved that they feel pain when you pluck their leaves, stems, brances, fruits, flowers etc. Get your facts right before effing about everything.
Religion has made us change our dietary habits and there is nothing wrong with it. In a true democracy or rather, in a perfect world, every religion should teach its followers to respect other religion and its people along with their preferences in food, customs etc.
The political parties which are now againts the ban are the same ones who supported beef ban as cow is considered holy in Hindus. However, these people conveniently forgot that in some religions, it is considered wrong to butcher an animal of any species.
Everyone has their own motive and agenda to push for bans like this. The political party which banned beef did it for the votes from kattar Hindus. The political party(s) which is against this week’s meat ban is doing so as it is eying the 2017 municipal elections and wants to, again, woo voters who support this ideology. All in all, it is nothing, but a game for them. People like us, either go with the flow and live a normal life, inspite of all the #banisms, or simply move out of this country where ban is a way of life.
Now you decide where you want to be :)
IT IS NOT A #MEATBAN, IT IS A #SLAUGHTERPAUSE It is a request to avoid slaughter of animals in BMC funded abattoires and markets. It does not affect any one’s personal choice and nor is it the intention. Restaurants and other private places will be able to freely server and consume meat. As tax payers we become equal participant in all activities funded by our tax money, so during the festival there was a plea to pause the BMC infrastructure from slaughter. No it is not a #MeatBan
Friends you might be victims of disinformation.
Here are the facts, BMC has passed an order to be implemented in two facilities it runs,
1. A slaughterhouse and
2. Markets run and facilitated by BMC, viz the BMC markets
These two facilities will not promote or sell meat during the festival.
So why does that idea popup that Jains are dictating what should people eat? Because of sustained disinformation. Usage of words like MEATBAN, imposition are not only semantically incorrect in this context, but also divisive.
The Jain organization requested this order from BMC because, as you know BMC is funded by tax payers money. A part of those tax payers are Jains. By definition the Jains also become part responsible(unwilling and unwittingly), for the slaughter and sale that happens in these BMC run places(which happens throughout the year)
The organization requested to stop these facilities for the 8 days, which were then reduced to 4 days and now maybe 2 days.
Contrary to what appears in the newspapers, which use the wrong sementics for sensationalizing, end up driving wedges between communities, no Jain is after you to see what you eat, or tell you what you cannot eat.
Jainism is an inward looking religion, which asks followers to focus on the innerself and not preach, let alone impose.
Jains are not such a large number to influence politics and thus were immune until now from the politicization.
Nor do Jain vote as vote banks, so for a moment remove the idea from your head that this order is influenced and somebody wants to dictate what you can and cannot eat, and see if helps you see more clearly.
How is it different from a BAN you ask? Please check up the list of BANs, a BAN suggests what is more permanent in nature, a BAN is much more wholistic and affects government and private players. E.g. Porn BAN was imposed so that no private ISP would be able to allow access to any blocked sites. You cannot access porn at home or cyber cafe or anywhere else. Hope you see the point now.
Dear Neha….can I say something… Your statement ends at your first sentance only…live and let live.. and I think animals also have equal rights to live..
Hi Neha,
I dont think there is any change in people after fasting for so many days or prohibiting themselves from eating vegetables those 8-10 days expect weakness!
By the same analogy would you be OK if you were made to slaughter and eat a goat on Bakr id…since another Religion does that and you imposed your belief on them during Paryushan! Taking it to another level…will they ban blades and razors in Punjab as it might offend Sikh sensibilities as they dont shave! LOL
Cmon….its never OK to impose one’s will on anyone else! Religious belief is a very personal thing….keep it confined within urself and dont try imposing it on others :)
Hello Neha,
Jainism is a widely respected religion. The only religion I feel which doesn’t have any scams or loud festivals which cause noise and water pollution. I’m also very fond of the stories of your Tirthankars as well. I consider myself as a follower of not any religion, but humanity.
This particular incident has been very controversial but. As you stated, your fellow Jainis expected peace and respect just like other religions are respected. Your motive is Golden, but your path was wrong.
What if, during Ramadan, Muslims banned having mid-day meals in public? That would be wrong right? Exactly. You could have just requested with love and peace and I bet many people would have followed not to eat meat for 4 days. But instead of requesting, you chose a path of forcing. Which is wrong. Well, I myself am a Vegetarian and I support your cause but not your path. Hope you understand.
Much love.
You hit the nail on the head! Kudos!!
Every religion is good until they are practising their faith in their allocated States… I am a catholic I love eating. Beef but they banned beef, initially I found it offensive but then realized this is Maharashtra I have to live according to Hindus tradition.. So Jain’s its good if u practice your religion in your allocated state… I’m not being offensive and even if you find it offensive I don’t give a damn about what ual think -_-
All I wana sae is banning meat is too much to ask
Now jains will decide what we should eat & what we should store and keep. Who gives you the right to impose your religion on us ?? Do we force you to eat onions and garlics ? Do we force you to do anything related to our religion ? the answer is no. You follow your religion customs ? Who is going to pay for the losses you are going to cause to the local meat vendors ? I don’t think your Paryushan will be complete by ruining others business or even by forcing people to follow your ways. Don’t get offended tomorrow by Hindus or Muslims or Sikhs or Christians force you to eat meat or do any other thing according to there festival. No one gives any one the right to decide for others. You follow your customs be happy you should not force others. Forcing and hurting others is against your own religion which you are breaking in 1st place I don’t think your paryushan can be complete by doing so!
The question ia not about giving up meat for “just 4 days”. First of all that decision should be voluntary. You don’t have right to impose tour beliefs on others. Secondly, jains are generally financially well off and can probably survive if they were asked to give up 4 days livelyhood. But, many of the people selling meat/fishes are from poor back ground and are daily wage earners. Why should those people go hungry for your beliefs.
If some schools are refusing to serve miday meals to non-muslims during Ramzan, of course I oppose that. Period.
While we’re at it about respecting others. Do you care to explain what gives Jains rights to deny flats to/throw garbage at others (meat eaters) in housing societies.
I don’t really care about the ban one way or another .. I am a non vegetarian and I won’t lose 100 grms if I don’t eat non veg for 4 days trust me …
But most rational people would agree that a “democratic” government didn’t/ shouldnt have any business in banning non veg for any length of time (1/2/4/8/10) days …!!
My respect for any other human (pls note didn’t say religion) is to let them have a freedom to choose how they want to live as long as it isn’t hurting anything …!!
This meat ban I don’t have anything against Jain (I know enough and they are good people), against the guy who suggested it – nothing (that person is a fickle village idiot) but govt/ corporation to endorse it and try to implement it – yes …
TFI should change its name to Frustrated Low IQ Indian. Kya standard hai article ka!
Ye Madam kehna kya chaahti thi, shayad khud unko nahi pata tha. Jo man mein aata gaya likhti gayi.
those people who say vegetables have life too, and shamelessly use that excuse to kill animals, because unlike vegetables they do not live in one place, they see, they smell, they show affection and pain just like humans, blood flow in their veins , their heart beats, they reproduce by mating ….. are these guys serious ???
Jainism preaches “Live and let live”. Clearly the ban takes away the source of livelihood of butchers for 4 days (consecutive or not). It also deprives non vegetarians of meat. So much for living and letting live. To quote you, long live hypocrisy.
Ridiculous arguments about plants being living and so on and on. How is that even relevant here? The beliefs of the Jain community is hardly the issue. The issue is that there has been an compromise in the freedom of the individual, which no matter how “small” is an issue of debate. Moreover, as someone pointed out, what if other groups ask for their own little bans too? Should Muslims ban pork in a majority Muslim area? Should alcohol be banned because it is against Hindu/Muslim religious values? Perhaps we should have a “meat dry” state like Gujarat in honour of some religious/social figure/guru/messiah that we follow and who did not believe in the partaking of meat. Small successes embolden people towards greater steps.
Besides 4 days is not a short interval. The main resistance is from people who derive their livelihood from the meat trade. Many of these people live from hand to mouth. However are you letting them “live” by cutting their source of livelihood?
Neha… I am veg. I have a problem with this ban. As you stated in your article.. Meat I hanged in shops and the sight is troublesome for lot of people… Agreed… So why not request all ur fellow citizens to not display meat in such a fashion.
Ban is a strong word. It’s dictionary meaning is legally prohibit, block, stop, veto etc..
As you mentioned in your religion you are not forced to follow paryushan by your elders.. Then why ban on other people.
It’s a free country. Requesting works better then force as very nicely put in your article. Best is you know people will still store and eat. Next time my suggestion is request not force n I ll restate I am vegetarian have loads of jain friends who request. Not BAN
You are right. The whole issue was the word BAN. Dry days will cease to exist if they are called as Alcohol ban.
This SM generation (including media) will report anything if word ban is associated with it. How was Kerela’s mid-day meal ban was ignored? Because word BAN was not used.
Even without knowing facts, people started reacting to this so called ban. Politicians instigating communities against Jains (some even cautioned of dire consequences).
Is it so easy to instigate and create uproar? People shouting freedom and “My life, my choice” types, if we become this intolerant then harmony in this diverse society will die. Saw many arguments of force-feeding meat to Jains during their festivals on SM. Isn’t this inappropriate and stupid to large extent?
People who are unaware,
The BAN, be it 8-4-2 days was been practiced by meat sellers in Mira-bhayander for 2 days only. The reason being financial constraints. So, if meat sellers voluntarily (partial/ jitna ho sake utna) did this, what’s the whole outcry about?
My advice to all is- just be a little tolerant and try to respect others.
Its not about Jainism , its not about religion , its not about whether plants have life. These are irrelevant. Its about rights. We live in one of the most free and secular countries on the planet.
Banning something because of religious reasons, goes against all the principles of freedom and secularism. Today the government bans meat, tomorrow it might ban your minority religion altogether. Who takes these moral decisions? the answer is Rights and principles.
And principles say that India is a free country , people are free to eat what they want and are free to practice any religion that they want.
Fuck!! this is some fake creep!! this guy aint a jain!! firstly he calls the other jainees his fellowmates and then he speaks shit!! if this article writer was a jain he wont call it “that community” get your words right before u just post some shit guys!! or get ur ass laughed at!! #fakeshit
I have gone through all the comments and read each and every one, some scientific explanation about the vegetation even enhanced my belief in Jainism more and next time I debate with my all fellow non-vegetarian mates I would be able to make them clear with logic along with scientific reasons. Though some comments are just criticizing and making hue and cry proving it as a hypocrisy, and I just pity on those noble souls who are crying it on this ban.
I just want to ask those who are crying – will you allow your body to chop-off to satiate some one else stomach?? Will you not feel the pain when a part of your body is cut-off, if Yes then obviously the same happens when you do the slaughter. So the ban is not to imposed on you noble people, indeed its just a request to feel the pain of those innocent animals and give them a life. Its just social media people just jump off the roof and try to pretend as if they are the only ones living in this democratic region with all the rights to freedom and not to teach them anything.
if you noble people do really care, then come along some day and we Jain’s will give you a glimpse of life explaining what sins or karmas you bring upon your soul by just killing innocent animals. Here note that plants too have life and by eating them we too bring some bad karmas upon our soul, though it is negligible to the slaughter you do for your taste-buds.
One more thing – in today’s world there is no mean to even teach or show good things as here everyone seems to be the most educated along with all gyan, and if someone will try to teach them or shoe any thing good they will just drag that person or religion to their level.
Rest all you noble people think good is good.
Not serving a mid-day meal in a school
during Ramadan is wrong, and so is the meat ban. One does not justify the other. India is a secular country,
and no laws based on any religion should be imposed on anyone.
It is true that I am not going to starve to death if I don’t
eat a mid-day meal, or if I don’t consume meat for 4 days. But in a way, the
ban is imposing one religion on citizens, whether they want to follow it or not.
This heavily contradicts with the democracy and the secularism that has united India for years.
Dear Random Citizen of Great Democracy,
I have heard enough on #MeatBan.
Even I don’t want this, folks.
You can eat whatever you want. It’s just, don’t kill animals for next 8 days. Is it wrong to ask for that?
I remember my mom cried when I killed a mosquito when I was 10. I thought it was silly. And it is tendency of the Jains to be this silly.. Later, when my best friend’s dog died.. And my friend stopped eating food for two days I understood it is not silly, but human nature to be sad when someone is dead. Yes, ‘Machar’ and ‘Kutta’ are different, sadly not to us.
Though it is stupid to ask you guys to stop eating meat or whatever But you see, our plans were bigger. We wanted terrorist to stop killing humans for at least for 8 days of Parushan. Unfortunately we can’t do that so now we just want to save some animals from you noble people, obviously If you don’t mind.
P.S. If you can produce meat/chicken without violence and cruelty please be my guest.
Divyankjn
When a farmer comes to pluck a plant does it run away like an animal does when a butcher comes to slit it’s throat? Also does a plant cry & whimper like an animal? Part of the universe’s design pattern.
If there is any respect for your community involved in me not eating meat for 4 days, I am OK with ban. But will any non meat eating community, try eating meat for 4 days, as a respect for my communit???
There was no ban on mid day meals in Kerala. I confirmed it from people living in Kerala. This is a BJP’s game to politicize things.
This should been headlined “An ignorent jain troll’s response”
As long as india is democratic i will eat whatever i want whenever i want.
**ck everyone’s sentiments they are the fools who don’t know how to ignore other people’s habits.
Firstly, I am no expert in jainism and my exposure to it is severely limited. Since the original poster has explicitly said that they’re against the ban so I’ll not argue that. That is unjust no matter how you slice it. And I’ve just got a few doubts that need clarification. If jains believe in the philosophy “live and let live”, couldn’t it apply to other humans? Given that it is not to an extent that it is life threatening but you’re going out of your way to make other uncomfortable just to prove that you value life of animals. We, as a society have developed to be more human centric than all other species. For example, if you murder a human and torture a animal, the legal ramifications are absolutely different. If you argue that animals have a life that is of equal importance, then you’ll be right in theory but you’re wrong practically. In a society where meat is ingrained on a dietary level, it is not just a matter of “this once” but a matter of principle. You can urge other communities to stop eating / slaughtering meat but that should be it and just because others don’t agree with you doesn’t make them sadist and cruel. They have a different view of animals and you should respect that as well. I can argue some clichéd stuff like ban food production in ramzan, yada yada yada. But i think I’ve been amptly clear.
I am a Jain but I do not support the ban imposed on eating meat. LIVE and LET LIVE. This ban is causing people to hate on Jainism. What good is that bringing to anybody? Everyone has their own belief system-Respect that!
Dear all, l think we all are HINDUS, INCLUDING JAIN, so why THIS.
I am a Jain but I do not support the ban imposed on eating meat. LIVE and LET LIVE. This ban is causing people to hate on Jainism. What good is that bringing to anybody? Everyone has their own belief system-Respect that!
do the jins abstain from dealing in black money…..or unethical business practices….ofcourse not…than why this hollobollo…..
life on this earth is based on one simple rule….”kill or be killed “……..if we remove this rule , life on this earth cant exist even for a single second…
Since other religions have been forced by government to not eat meat for 4 days out of respect for Jainism, would Jains show the same respect to other religions if government makes it compulsory to eat meat during Eid or during Kali puja?
Would government even do it?
Where is the principal of live and let live?
Read the article…the ban is not on eating but selling… Idea is not to stop people from eating… To be clear – idea always was that if there is less killing in 8/10 days of Paryushan. BUT if this is taking right of living or taking food from someone then this will not be as per Jainism
I don’t think there there is any compulsion that someone should eat meat on Eid ( I might me wrong)
But to your point, as a mark of respect if We are asked to not cook/eat anything publicly in front of people who are keeping Roja… Then why not… We should respect every individual and every religion…
Respect on your sentiments that you would be fine with not cooking and eating publicly during roja.. Really appreciate.
However, the question would arise when it’s not as simple as just avoidance.
Its incorrect to say that just because it is democracy, you can do whatever you feel like. Imagine, your freedom is important but what about millions of poor animals you are killing just to satiate your hunger !
Some powerful person can infict cruelty on you as well saying that he has the power and resources , and it makes business sense for him to inflict the cruelty on you. Whole world is suffering from non violence, and lack of peace. ” Non violence is supreme religion” – “Ahimna parmodharma”
Those people who are talking about the vegetable having life, what about other days etc etc. pl realize that as humans we need to gradually evolve for betterment of society for everyone
This reply has got nothing to do with Jainism…
The opt point was the mid-day meal ban in Malabar in Ramadan, though i did protect against this, these things were unheard because of political issues…
I still didn’t understand banning meat for the masses from the community, it has actually rose the sales of meat in these days, plus protests, plus atrocities and mostly importantly comments on a religion which is otherwise peaceful…I doubt that banning meat would really help the cause for why its being banned…rather it has had an inverse effect on the cause…
point aptly put ahead, good gesture, hope so others in the community (not only jains but pan india community) understand what secularism is all about in real terms…
Welcome to India, the country where politics is a sentiment. i don’t support in forcing people to not eat due to my beliefs, having said this. If people think that banning meat is hypocrisy,
1.What is forcing people to marry on valentines day ? Not allowing them to meet their loved ones peacefully ?
2.What is forcing BANDH! on traders and shopkeepers who don’t believe in your Philosophy?
Look in the MIRROR.
Hi everyone!
First n foremost I m a Jain. And I don’t support the ban. I feel its an attempt by the govt to appease a community or possibly a show of clout in the municipality by some of the community members or both.
1. The Jains celebrate this festival as rightly pointed out by the author to cleanse their mind, body and soul. its supposed to be more of an internal cleansing carried out by the incumbent for his own self, not leading to imposition of restrictions for others, a voluntary action, even for the Jains.
2. Respect needs to be earned, not demanded. if there was a request by the community leaders for abstinence from meat to society at large, it was understandable but a top down ban from the municipality leads to far more collateral damage and infact hurts the community.
3. regarding the discussion about eating plants vs. animal, just like to add the following: Jain philosophy is based on self realization and spirit of ahimsa (non violence) for all living beings, irrespective of size, shape, breed, gender, etc. its true that plants are also living beings and eating them results in formation of bad karma, but the attempt is to minimize this karma as much as possible, by avoiding things which are not necessary for subsistence, and in the above debate, the qualifier is self-consciousness and sensory organs, both of which are more developed for animals (as proven by science). its a tricky thing to understand but there is a definite logic to it, on one hand we uphold that all life is equal but at the same time we distinguish between the scope of pain inflicted by our actions.
4. Further to my more aggressive fellow Jains; its not that you are strictly a vegetarian (or Jain), even if you wanted to be. you may not eat it, but say for eg. when you are under medication or hospitalized, each and every drug that you use has been tested on multitudes of animals (resulting in far more pain and atrocity than mere death by the butchers knife) for R&D, with very high possibility of animal ingredients (remember there is no green dot on allopathic medicines). so again the point is that its the spirit of ahimsa that counts( inflicting as little pain on others as possible). Jainism is much more than mere restrictions on food! But bans such as these in the name of religion, reduce it to just that. As Jains, we may not like abattoirs or butchers displaying meat, but banning it for few days wont make it go away right? it would be mere symbolism lost on the masses, seen as an attempt to dictate eating habits during festivities.
5. Also as pointed out, if taking a cue from this ban, other communities/religions want to have their own version of bans, it will lead to social unrest and weaken the secular fabric.
Why Paryushan? Behave good, don’t cheat other people in 355 days. Then only its worth observing paryushan else not.
Awesome thought !!
My only point after reading the article is.. Why do you care about what I put in my mouth.. Who gave you the right to decide for me?.. I don’t go about forcing people of the Jain community to come and eat meat when I eat.. Then what has caused you to propagate your belief via a law that bans things for me? Your community has every right to practice its beliefs and by the same right I may eat or shit whatever I belief is right for me..
I can quote hundreds of articles and scientific researches that give you benefit of eating meat.. Will you eat meat after that?
And moreover its not an issue of losing 100 gms… I have met many vegitarians who are obese, overweight and riddled with heath problems. Think about the low income shopkeepers and farmers who will have to take a massive loss because of you egomaniacs trying to make a point.. Think about how it will impact their livelihood and family.. Will you or your community compensate for their loss in business??
As the article only says Jain believes in the philosophy to live & let live….I too think we can’t ban anyone to eat anything…sabki apni choice hai…me sirf sabse haath jodke nivedan karna chahunga ki ho sake toh paryushan ke din Non Veg na khaaye aur nahi kisi jeev jantu ko maare…kisi ko jabardasti nai hai…agar karenge toh acha lagega…baaki aapki marji…jai jinendra
I don’t think the issue is “all we want is to stop people from harming a few lives for a few days, how bad could that be?” at all.
More pertinent to the discussion is whether–
1. in a secular state it is appropriate to impose religiously inspired legislation (the precedent for this, as many have correctly pointed out was set by non-Jains preceding this whole fiasco, to be clear). We are veering further and further away from democracy in our social policies and civil rights, and this is an issue that tends to alarm people, we all wish to be free to live as we like.
2. people deserve their work life to be disrupted for four or more days, their incomes robbed from them, etc. in the name of something to appease a religious sentiment. It certainly is not as simple as losing 100gms weight. Patronizing attitudes about food culture and other artifacts of the sort are frequently used in class and caste politics to subjugate others, trying to tout non-violence as a superior appeal to other ways of living is not an innocent request by a long stretch.
None of this is to say that the Shiv Sena has any jurisdiction on these matters anyway…
Such a bullshit post…. If your Moto is to live and let live…..Do that and let us take care of our lives….. Who the F**K gave you rights to protect animals who are meant to be consumed by the tertiary predator (HUMANS)… Bullshit Post…. Bullshit thinking…. go f**k your plants and stay indoor….
गर्व था भारत-भूमि को
कि महावीर की माता हूँ।।
राम-कृष्ण और नानक जैसे
वीरो की यशगाथा हूँ॥
कंद-मूल खाने वालों से
मांसाहारी डरते थे।।
पोरस जैसे शूर-वीर को
नमन ‘सिकंदर’ करते थे॥
चौदह वर्षों तक खूंखारी
वन में जिसका धाम था।।
मन-मन्दिर में बसने वाला
शाकाहारी राम था।।
चाहते तो खा सकते थे वो
मांस पशु के ढेरो में।।
लेकिन उनको प्यार मिला
‘ शबरी’ के जूठे बेरो में॥
चक्र सुदर्शन धारी थे
गोवर्धन पर भारी थे॥
मुरली से वश करने वाले
‘गिरधर’ शाकाहारी थे॥
पर-सेवा, पर-प्रेम का परचम
चोटी पर फहराया था।।
निर्धन की कुटिया में जाकर
जिसने मान बढाया था॥
सपने जिसने देखे थे
मानवता के विस्तार के।।
नानक जैसे महा-संत थे
वाचक शाकाहार के॥
उठो जरा तुम पढ़ कर देखो
गौरवमय इतिहास को।।
आदम से गाँधी तक फैले
इस नीले आकाश को॥
दया की आँखे खोल देख लो
पशु के करुण क्रंदन को।।
इंसानों का जिस्म बना है
शाकाहारी भोजन को॥
अंग लाश के खा जाए
क्या फ़िर भी वो इंसान है?
पेट तुम्हारा मुर्दाघर है
या कोई कब्रिस्तान है?
आँखे कितना रोती हैं जब
उंगली अपनी जलती है।।
सोचो उस तड़पन की हद जब
जिस्म पे आरी चलती है॥
बेबसता तुम पशु की देखो
बचने के आसार नही।।
जीते जी तन काटा जाए,
उस पीडा का पार नही॥
खाने से पहले बिरयानी,
चीख जीव की सुन लेते।।
करुणा के वश होकर तुम भी
गिरी गिरनार को चुन लेते॥
शाकाहारी बनो…!
।
To clarify the matter, no 1 had much of a problem with a ban of 2-4 days which has been in place for many years now without any fuss. The whole episode has started when a ban of 10-18 days was ordered by BJP in Mira-Bhayander Municipality even after opposition from all other parties.
YOU SIR, YOU complain about the middle East baning eating and drinking water in public during Ramadan, and now you want similar stuff to happen in India. Clap clap slow clap.
So you are saying that it is right that meat was banned for 4 days because mid day meals were not served doing ramzan. That’s like crossing a wrong with a wrong. The mid day meal thing is not an excuse to ban meat during paruyshan. If we really believed in live and let live, we would have not cared about what others chose to do and concentrate on ourselves. No, instead we or some highly influential jain lobbyists tried to exert dominance over other religions by enforcing this ban.
Also, your article covers something to the effect of “oh it is only four days, what does it matter? Can’t you live without meat for four days?” However the matter at hand is not to question whether people can handle it or not. It is not to test their survival. If chickens hanging in butcher shops are painful to see, well too bad because India is a secular country that upholds every religion equally. By forcing other people to follow something that jains would like them to do is enforcing one religions dominance over others.
Also, your sarcasm filled article doesn’t really show where you stand on the ban.
Hope you don’t mind a little criticism,
A fellow Jain.
Nitin Bhai, kem cho ?
I have read your posts/ replies with interest. FYI, I am a Jain too. But I eat meat, including Beef. It’s my choice. I guess going by the tenets of Jainism, I qualify to be forgiven for such a travesty, no? Maybe at some point in future, I will realise my sins and turn Vegetarian.
Let’s understand that while Jains are indeed offended by meat, or raw meats hanging from butchers shops etc..the same way other religions and communities may be offended by symbols and practices of other religions. You have as much right to be offended as someone else is. Will you fast from dawn to dusk in Ramzan, to respect the “sentiments” of the Muslims ? Or what if the Muslims demand a ban on vegetables ? How would you react to that ? BTW Jains are 2% of India’s pop while Muslims are around 15%, I guess.
Also, while demanding a ban on meat, why not also demand a ban on all root vegetables (Kanda, lasun, batata etc) during Paryushan – and see how the rest of the Vegetarian community responds ? After all, they should respect your “sentiments” as much as non vegetarians, no ?
India is a secular, democratic nation. Our Constituion (Art 21) guarantees all citizens the right to freedom of choice, religion, speech, expression etc. Hence, such bans are against Art. 21 itself. The Beefban is being contested in court and the outcome will be interesting to see.
Let me also ask you – if Jainism preaches forgiveness and harms no one – does that extend to people who have lost their livelihood due to the beef ban ? Do you know that thousands of butchers, meat traders, exporters, leather industry workers and other ancillary industries dependent on meat, hide, bones etc of the animals have been affected by the ban – their livelihood brutally snatched away by the useless BJP Maharashtra Govt which is blatantly partisan, communal and bigoted – evident in all their actions, including the Beefban itself and the efforts to capitalise on the Jain community’s Paryushan.
The Jain community was quietly going about its business and no one bothered. There was heat generated by the Beefban but this was restricted to the upper caste Hindus who ‘apparently’ were itching to enforce a Beefban to keep their constituents satiated. But thanks to the BJP hijacking your agenda, the Jain community has now gained notoriety and is known more for intolerance than the tolerance and forgiveness which it preaches within itself.
If the Jain community indeed practices tolerance and forgiveness, I would strongly suggest the community elders / leaders come out against the Ban and tell the BJP in no uncertain terms that they do not wish their festival to be politicized. It is not too late – it can still be done now. Put these bloody politicians in their place – they have no love for you, they only want your votes. The sooner you realise this, the better :)
Macchami Dukadam :)
..Sanjeev
You have no right to intervene in the matters of others, what i buy from the store is my choice. You have no right to infulence the shop keeper to expurgate a few things from my shopping list. India is not a JAIN state.
If some of the people in society (less than 2%) want to teach the morals and values to the rest, take something from me too.
Keeping in view the reasons given for meat ban and pathetic comments on this blog, I wud suggest jains to accomplish their “ahimsa parmo dharma” concept.
well belive me or no or call me anything you want but “ahimsa parmo dharma” and “jiyo aur jeene do” can never be acomplished together.
If you want to live you have to kill either directly and knowingly or inderictly and unknowingly.
But since you all are against killing, then why is there confusion on kind of killing??? killing is killing wether an invisible bacteria or a huge whale or anything for that matter.
and again since you are against killing, then better you people stop even BREATHING. just dont fast and be abstain from whatever you do, only for some days.
Hello Neha,
I don’t see why you would ask anyone to respect your beliefs when they don’t share the same. Would you respect my beliefs if I said- I believe unicorns are the one true god or that harry potter is real?
Banning mid day meal during ramadan is equally ridiculous. You have the right to follow religion in your way. You may feel pained by looking at meat being hanged in meatshop. Stop taking that route simple.. You dont have right to take away livelyhood of others even for a day. This is against lie and let live philosophy, because earning livelihood i part of living. Hope you understand.
Also let me tell you one of the phylosophy of hinduism and also Jainism if i am not wrong is that we respect others way of following their religion. So if as an hindu/muslim i have no bar in eating meat then my way of following my religion should be respected and not just tolerated.
I think the last 20-30mins that i spent in reading the whole discussion , were the most productive mins i have spent ! Understood a lot of things.. We cant impose and cant take imposition at all which is absolutely correct on citizen and human level both ! I live in a family who never imposed religion ,carrier options , choice of clothes ,friends nothing ! (Except relatives ). Everything has been a self choice – good or bad ! I am a jain and not everybody in family follows the thumb rules of jainism and ate aloo pyaas everything possible . Just want to share my story .As a child i used to go to this school where they taught what jainisim preaches , there once they demonstrated using a microscope etc. On how eating underground veges could kill a lot of organisms . Those organisms were twirling one above another ,i dont know how many they were but were quite a lot ! That day i came home and told mom that dont give me aloo kal se . Next day she packed my tiffin with aloo chips etc. Thinking that i was just saying for the heck of it . I starved that whole day and came home with the uneaten tiffin to which mom was left in splits. From that day which is nearly 15 days back , i have stopped eating aloo , pyaas and all the underground veges. ( Everyone at home still eats it ,we use the same utensils ,blah blah ). This decision of mine was taken after i saw something and after i believed in it ! Had mom told me to not eat, i know for a fact i would have never followed it ! So the inference is everything should be a self choice cause imposition is just not ethical ! Standing up for rights is a good and must thing but no harm in listening to other people’s opinions and doing something for a cause ! Four days of you not eating meat might save a few mothers chicken babies..will give them four extra days together , not a bad idea ! This is just my opinion ,thinking on it or throwing it in trash is yours !:)
Food, clothing and shelter are my basic necessities. No religion will be ever tolerated which prevents me from accessing all my basic necessities.
Change begins from inside not by banning things outside the community.
So better stay in the boundaries don’t infiltrate others way of life. Cause a particular community makes no sense by avoiding other community to exercise their basic rights.
And #fact. ” No Mercedes or BMW owned by a jain contains seats made out of cloth, there is a genuine leather badge on it”.
So please stop pretending to be religious.
Nothing against any religion and festivals.. But I would like to put my question forward.. Why are people being forced not to eat meat just to respect Jainism and Paryushan? What if the Jains are forced to eat meat to respect other religions or their religious festivals? Would they do that? And the answer is pretty clear.. It’s a NO.. And as mentioned in the open letter by Neha Jain.. Jainism preaches to live and let live.. I don’t think putting a ban is respecting the religions preaching in any manner.. I’m a hindu but as an individual its just unfair.. And there are many of my Jain friends who too have this perspective to the ban given by the government.. As they also agree to it I think my question has a valid point otherwise they wouldn’t agree to it..
Why can’t we stop having meat for four days and which by the way aren’t even four consecutive days!?
Why losing 100 grams such a big deal?
Believe me… Not having meat for just four days is some thing everyone could do!
Then what’s really going wrong?
Why are they being such hypocrites regarding such a tiny request?
Forget about people humbly accepting this request!… There are people who started disrespecting the community as a whole!
Are they out of their minds?
But have we thought enough from everyone’s point of view?
What if they could make sense!?
And maybe this entire dispute is not about some random no 4 days meat but about a restriction of an obvious right.
If you believe in Paryushan and you need to follow abstinence – good for you!
How big or small the deal may be.. It doesn’t give you a choice to curtail the right of the rest just because you believe in something!
And now why is there a feeling of disrespect for this community?
Ignoring the fact of actually asking the slaughterhouses to stop killing during these four days.. The very fact of even having such a thought seems to be a joke.
Okay so I wouldn’t be eating meat today!… Why not stop everyone from doing so!? And giving them a reason which they really don’t care about!
Oh I can’t see meat in a shop after fasting for a month its a painful sight.
Come on!.. Live with it!… The greatest peace of mind you could have is by convincing yourself that you are doing your part really well.
Don’t make others sacrifice anything for a concept they do not believe.
Just finally
On a personal note I’ve always being impressed by the ethics of Jainism and do respect their belief…wouldn’t even have a second thought before agreeing to have no meat for four days but it’s something that should be a choice and not a compulsion and just the concept of democracy shouldn’t be redefined where everyone gets a right to curtail the right of somebody else’s, something of this sort shouldn’t be appreciated!
Its an outrageCoz
Sure we can stop eating meat, but why a ban… its forced not a choice….thereby robbing us a freedom of choice we are entitled to have in a free society. This is clearly a community trying to dictate our eating habits.
Hypocrisy? Let’s talk about how you are not supposed to use footwear while going to the derasar, and you’ll actually go barefoot,but, on aa God damn Activa!!!!
Yawn… A small yawn again.. Stop begging for favors for four, non consecutive days and cleansing 365 – 30 days in a year so that you gear up for 335 odd days to do whatever. Ban for eating a thing =compulsion for eating a thing, only in uncivilized circumstances. Practice what you want, don’t preach your whims, least the favour be returned, in not so palatable way.
This is so god damn stupid…. follow your philosophies and religions… why impose them on others…. I personally am a vegetarian… but i dont try to tell people what they should eat or not… its a matter of personal choice…….. what gives u any right to ban things… especially food… to follow a certain way of life is also a personal choice…. u wanna follow paruyshan…fine follow it…. why are u imposing on others………… regards to your plants have no pain funda… http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/botany/plants-feel-pain.htm
Even if they dont feel pain… plants have life and eating them is also killing them.
So if you really dont wanna inflict pain on living things…. stop eating alltogether! that way no more kiiling others except perhaps yourself from starvation. Death is an inevtiable part of life. the faster you realise this the better for u. Never be attached to anything, even life… of others and of urself as well. For attachment will never gain u self realization & peace… that u seek through paruyshan. Since u follow paruyshan, perhaps try an apologize to everyone for such bullshit ban.
Hello everyone..
I just want to ask few questiona to all of my Brothers and sisters here….
1.Is this the first time this Paryushan has come ? This comes once in every year ryt ?
2. Why this Meat Ban or a request to stop selling meat raised for this very first time ?
3. Why only in the rule BJP govt, my Jain brothers has realised that they need to take this step ?
4. Why this was not raised during Congress govt’s rule?
its because, first they ban beef… then they are after all meat… god knows what else they will start banning…. food water air??
Very nicely summed up neha! I second you on your shared thought.
I think it is purely an individual’s choice and purely natural to eat meat or vegetables. I respect the discretion of those chose to be a veggie, non veggie or chose to eat both. I dont know much about science but all i can say is it not bad to have tandoori chicken with a platter of hara bhara kebab. Come on guys…grow up. Our nation has many more issues that we can talk about rather than discussing which is less sinful…killing animal or plant. Nitin jain hats off to you. How do you make such long speech on baseless facts
Hi Neha, You say “various Government schools in Malabar stopped serving mid-day meals during Ramzaan”..however thats just a lie created by the Sanghis .Read this article to get your facts right….
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/midday-meal-not-banned-during-ramzan/article7647524.ece
A ban is forced and it will only lead to hatred. It’s like your rights are taken away forcefully. If you wanna communicate perseverance and protection of life, use this time to convince ppl not to eat meat and try to stop them for ever, which would make more sense.
Christians, also abstain from meat during lent time (71 days a year). So if all different communities are gonna ask this, then meat would be banned for probably more than half a year.
Besides, one of the greatest thing about fast, lent is tht during tht phase you would cleanse yourself and be closer to your soul, in such a state, we shouldshould be able to disassociate from things happening around and watch things as a mere observer rather than those things effecting you. That is where the true spiritual growth begins.
It is our mind we need to change control, not change everything else around.
When you look at another angle, what is the final impact of the ban. Hatred towards jain community, hatred towards govt and a feeling of suppression and exploitation on self.
So many Hindus supported the beef ban for religious reasons. Now why are they crying over a general ban on meat for the Jain community?
well written article Neha Jain. & seeing what the MNS workers have done in front of Jain temple in Thane clearly reflects your statement, “They don’t respect their religion, so they can’t respect other religions as well. also these protests are mere political gimmick when the ban has been in place since 1964. I wonder what reaction these MNS & Shiv Sena workers had if the same meat ban was followed during a Hindu festival.
My point is simple. I have nothing against vegetarianism. But no government should pass a law forcing all communities to adhere to a certain food habit because that is the food habit of one particular community. For any number of days. For even half a day. By same token, I oppose banning of alcohol (and I am a strict non-drinker) Ramzan, or for that matter midday meals in schools where there might be non-Muslim students. If your religion forbids you to eat something, by all means don’t eat it, but don’t tell others what they can or can not eat.
2ndly, this is not simply the case of one festival, but it’s becoming a pattern. Let me share with you a personal experience. I traveled to North Sikkim this summer, and at one particular hotel, we were sent out of the dinner hall because the Jains were going to be served first, and they couldn’t abide eating in the same hall as non-vegetarian people. We had to wait 2 hours, and we were hungry and we had an early morning the next day. Please tell me how this was right? What would happen if they were on a plane eating a Jain meal and a person in the next seat was eating meat? The point is I was made to feel like a 2nd class citizen because of my food habits and that is NOT OKAY.
I can tell you of another experience where a group of MBA students went on a picnic, and two of the Jain girls decided to try a sip of some alcoholic drink. Just a sip, mind you, to taste. The Jain boys in the group (they were just classmates, not family members) were so enraged by this transgression that they reduced the girls to tears with verbal abuse. So do some Jains tend to look down upon people who don’t follow their rules? Yes, they do and that’s not very tolerant.
Also, let’s talk about this report:
http://dnasyndication.com/dna/dna_english_news_and_features/Leave-this-house-or-your-girl-will-be-raped/DNAHM86730
You want to talk about intolerance? It’s not on the non-vegetarians’ end.
But its not the question of respecting a religion…its what u believe and what u stand upto…if these bunch of people thought that others should stop eating meat for some particular days why should these very guys beat up some families in their societies for getting fish or eating fish at home…and when these incidents had taken place there was clearly no religious days for either of them….also on the day of ganesh chaturthi most religions dont eat meat at home…but have they ever asked for any shops to be shut down…or even during sankashti or angarika chaturthi have any jains been asked not to sell or eat vegetables because its a fasting day for us…the very purpose of live and let live gets defeated here…its not about just eating..its about living ur own life and letting others live theirs…if it was for eating , even plants have lives. may it grow above the ground or under…and also plants give us oxygen…so if anybody is such a vegan..and consuming so many plants…does he go and plant even a single tree in one year..
the very fact that this whole thing started is saddening in itself.
And also regarding the incidents of beating up of a non jain resident for eating non veg or not selling flats/houses to non jains…i mean just dont get this….my friends who r jains go to multi cuisine restaurants…places like pop tates jugheads…they booze..eat there….so why not beat up other guys at other tables who have ordered non veg..if u cant stana guy eating non veg in your building then why go to bars/restaurants which serve non veg???
And my dear friend nitin jain here…as he said about jiva tattva…..that plants feel less pain so its ok to kill them..so lesser karma. Also we are eating ripen fallen fruits to help plant kingdom flourish…what non sense ??do u think fruits u get in the market are fallen fruits?qnd if u want them to flourish let birds and animals do their job…and what about ecological balance…then all the carnivores should turn into herbivores as u say…also about the whole less pain lesser himsa thing…then why is it considered wrong or a sin or a crime when someone who is braindead is raped or killed…technically a braindead person will feel nothing (lesser than plants) so should we go and eat braindead people?? Im not saying that eating non veg is a gud thing or bad…we as humans have abused mother nature pretty much and will continue to do so for years….the point is u kill a plant/mosquito/chicken/goat/elephant/human/ a braindead person…U HAVE KILLED…its got nothing to do with pain or less pain or no pain…thats probably why euthanasia is still not allowed here…
So the politician achieve what they wanted…divide and rule…Jain’s are now resented by meat eaters, meat eaters are resented by Jains for not being happy about animals living a few more days….lot of people lose business, lot of people are forced to change their food habits…When beef was banned, some of these same meat eaters were happy, then they realised it can be taken a step further and impact them in form of meat ban….don’t worry Jains will also face some sort of Ban that will pinch them at some point…this puppet show by politicians will go on…we’l keep our silence, defend the religious sentiments…basically keep being used to divide us further….and the Jains who are saying this meat ban is their right should know that application of force is a form of violence and against the core belief of Jainism…if we have the right by our side lets inspire not impose….I am a jain…I have never been forced even within my own family to do more than I want to and I can…The spirit of Paryushan is all about self control and not compulsion…
And please lets not pretend this Ban is about love of animals…chicken and fish can be killed because the business is run by powerful Koli community who will shake the empire if their business is touched…mutton and lamb business is majorly run by Muslim community…who were the first target when beef was banned…
Its politics at its worst!
I really think that its the high time that people who live with this thought of closing down of meat shops should see that in this world at any given point of time their action is not hurting or killing anyone, yes anyone on this planet. Refrain yourself from wearing anything made of leather or fur. Stop consuming milk or any milk product because their are lot of sufferings and pain involved while it is being artificially given injection and the milk is only for calf not for us. Dont travel in cars, planes becoz the pollution you are adding to the society may be killing someone by infections in lungs or some respiratory disease. Live a life which does not depends or is harming others, Why? because you people are concerned about spreading positivity by shutting down the meat shops, then learn to take care of fellow humans around you as well. IF YOU CAN LEAD A LIFE WHICH DOES NOT HARMS OR KILLS ANY LIVING BEING ON THIS EARTH, THEN THEIR SHOULD BE MEAT BAN. But if you cannot do so then better try to make this place better by your efforts. Serve humanity! If iam born i need to die, and death needs a reason to come. Grow up. We cannot live a life without harming others. It is practically impossible. So better do good, rather than wasting time in such stupid things.
No one has the right to enforce what others should or shouldn’t eat. I think people opposing the ban are only asking for their fundamental right to choose what they want to eat, it is nothing to do with disrespecting any community. Its heartening to know that Jain community are free to follow their religion without any restrictions, so they should extend this privilege to everyone as well.
If some community feels disrespected just because others do not want to participate or agree with their thoughts and way of living, i think this community and/or its followers are intolerant. Look at some other countries where people are intolerant and have resorted to bans and diktats. Such nations have gone to the dogs and such communities have faced global wrath.
Guys your debate reminds me of a very impressive comment made by someone on slaughtering animals for meat. “If slaughter houses would have glass mirrors everyone will go vegetarian by default” ,the amount of pain and torture that animals go through for no fault of their while getting slaughtered is indeed EXTREME. Guys just imagine if we cannot take a cut on our body for surgery without anasthesia just imagine the pain those animals go through wen under the blade. Just a mere request please avoid meat and have mercy on those animals. Thank you.
This article has 2 contradictory say.
live and let live v/s rest of d article
Eating non-veg food is not equivalent to killing. Stop mistaking it with brutality. When “we” (non-vegetarians) eat non-veg food, we are doing nothing different than being part of a food chain which was naturally designed for everyone. It is another point that we have commercialized it out of our need but it is still as natural as breathing. I do not remember having grabbed a Jain or any vegetarian for that matter and forcefully fed him a leg piece or something like that. Society works on respect for each others culture and even if what your “seniors” thought is right (hypothetically) it is wrong to obstruct freedom to eat non-veg.
Lol.. Go and ask any non-vegetarian, why do they eat non-veg..
Even if 5% of them say ‘to maintain food chain’, I’ll eat chicken with you along (I’m a pure-veg Brahmin though, still).
Its not like that man.. MOST people eat non-veg because their religion didn’t stop them. Gradually, MOST of them eat because of TASTE!
There is no obstruction on eating anything. Everyone is free to EAT anything. The ban is on killing of animals on few days.. So I guess you should also stop mistaking things!
sheesh……so much discussion on this topic, to all jain people pls keep your logic, your faith to only yourself, i respect your religion and can give full support to your cause, but banning meat for other people is just not ethical, if you feel that you see meat hanging in butcherrs shop etc, find someother solution like providing temporary curtains so that you dont get to see all that, there are many alternatives and ban is just not the solution
When Children are dying at birth and between age 0-1 in lakhs, where farmers commit suicide in lakhs all around India, where we have a mountain to climb in form of zero employment, where there is rural distress, with terrible healthcare system to name a few of the major issues. These are diversionary tactics of the government,politicians and bureaucrats to keep the citizens away from the real issues and involve them into foolish and useless issues of eating habits, language to name a few. Intolerance comes when one has to hide incompetence.
Totally agree with you Neha :). We Jains are supposed to worry about our own conduct and character the most. We are also supposed to only teach and preach, but not force something. Clearly Jains have forgotten these basic lessons.
Just one small point. There was no stopping of mid-day meal in any school in south india. The report is unfounded & fabricated to create misunderstanding.
*****JAINS are PROMOTERS of VEGETARIANISM & UNTOUCHABILITY*****
The ANCIENT Jains were the ORIGINAL PROMOTERS of vegetarianism, untouchability and extreme casteism. The Jains dogmatically believe that the eating of meat makes the NON-VEGETARIANS become EXTREMELY UNCLEAN SINNERS and CRIMINALS, just like the people of LOWER CASTES who are considered DIRTY and UNTOUCHABLE by them.
Even today, the DOGMATIC Brahmins are following these extremely PRIMITIVE and RETROGRADE beliefs and practices of the Jains. Due to these beliefs of Jains in vegetarianism, untouchability and casteism, the Brahmins have also accepted the SUPERIORITY of the Jain MUNIS. The Brahmins actually consider the Jain priests as their GURUS!!
So it is NOT surprising that the Brahmins want to please their JAIN GURUS by getting the sale of MEAT BANNED in India. The Brahmins have already got the slaughter of COWS and BULLS BANNED in many states of India. Now they are trying to get the slaughter of all animals and birds BANNED in the country.
*****JAINS ALSO WORSHIP NUDITY*****
I still remember the event of many years back, in which I saw totally NAKED Jain SAADHUS marching through the streets of Pune city, with fashionable well-dressed LADIES from rich Jain families following the NUDE SAADHUS in a procession!!
The Jains are allowed to WORSHIP their NUDE SAADHUS and the NUDE IDOLS of some of their TIRTHANKARS who were the founders of their religion.
…..wow this is coming from a sindhi, the community which could barely talk in their mother tongue. Well I don’t need to answer this
Mithil Jain jee,
Why have you brought the question of MOTHER TONGUE in the discussion on Meat Ban and the Jain religion? As you have referred to it, please let us know about the MOTHER TONGUE of JAINS.
Vegetables also have life that is true but can you see it?? Can you feel the pain of killing those while cooking?? Just imagine the same with animals! They are crying for their life and still if you slaughter them….atleast a few amount of animals would have been saved if the ban would have been implemented!!
I can imagine the same pain in animals as well as plant. I am a tribal guy , we believe everything has a spirit and we pray only to them. But as matter of fact we thank the spirit for their sacrifice we are able to fill our bellies be it plant or animal. Everything has a purpose. The animals you talk about saving would at sometime be consumed by somebody be it human, other animals, insects etc. I support practicing of any religion one wants. But imposing certain views can sometime lead to conflict of ideas..the one that is certainly happening right now. Even I wouldn’t be wanting tribal customs being imposed on other people cause I know it might conflict with their ideals. Its best ideas can be shared and not imposed. Let individual decide what they want to follow.
How many people have been killed or compelled to do sucides by Treacherous Jain Community in the name of Business Ethics ?
Hey Neha,
Why is it that there is meat ban and not leather ban or banning use of animal products like leather purses, belts, jackets, boots. Shouldn’t that be more disturbing? Because I rather see people consume it as that is the law of nature than have people carry a purse made out of leather right? Coz that’s not natural you can buy a purse or belt or shoes or jackets that are not made of animals??? Doesn’t that hurt your sentiment more killing animals for fashion??? Or when Jain aunties wear silk sarees at mahavir jayanti??? Silk is made from silk worms….millions are killed to make silk sarees…. Doesn’t that hurt your sentiment???? What hypocrites Jains are being? Wearing sarees made from dead worms but not allowing others to eat meat????
Jainism a frustrated philophosphy of sramanic fold. Kshatriya formed it to revolt against brahmanical order. Later the banias and traders joined it and they have destroyed jainism,which is good anyways.
See, i have nothing to do with karma, hindu religion, gods, godesses, ahimsa, living beings, senses and all. All i know is that I love to eat meat. And i will eat any day i want. My parents might eat veg at home on a particular day of week, but i have never followed that custom.. They eat veg, and i eat non veg in front of them. If the custom and rule in my family can’t impose on me to avoid meat for one day in a week, why should outsiders prohibit me from eating meat for four days. I respect your religion, i value your rituals, but not at the expense of my right to eat. Your logic that we will store meat in advance or eat in excess to compensate was absurd… U will b happy that u could make some living beings stay alive for few more days, but u cant impose ur happiness on us… I oppose roasting of meat outside community hall as much as i oppose selling of pork outside mosque or beef outside temple… Doing such things hurt the sentiments of a religion… But buying meat from the allotted shops, eating meat at home or restors shud not hurt ur semtiments… Otherwise u not eating beef or mutton on Eid, or turkey on christmas or chicken on dusshera should hurt other communities’ sentiments too…
To say that plants have only one sense organ is at best ignorance. Anyway getting into people’s kitchens is perverted. Thankfully the Supreme Court hascoclusively resolved the matter, and to borrow from the author Live and let live..